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FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software

FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software

Posted Aug 30, 2009 4:14 UTC (Sun) by alankila (subscriber, #47141)
In reply to: FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software by hypatiadotca
Parent article: FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software

I recognize that many of the sort of thoughts I have had are nicely numbered and bitingly summarized in derailing for dummies, and it even lists quite a number of clever arguments I have not thought of yet.

I do not know what you mean by "challenges to privilege". I was talking about women attacking well-meaning men. The most common charge I have seen is "being patronizing". Like, having an idea that occurs to you as a 101-level man, you express it and then get very acidic feedback whose essence is "Do you think we are that stupid? Oh, the great man comes into the scene and surveys it with his superior intelligence and discovers a solution. You idiot! We tried that already in '73!"

I can understand where it comes from, but I would do all I can to beg for patience from women when facing guys. As a rule, we are clearly nearly completely oblivious to the objectives that modern feminist thought wishes to attain for women. It may well be because by default we live lazily and happily in our cozy cushion of privilege, and therefore do not perceive anything to be wrong. Perhaps if women came up with a good ad campaign or two that depicts real stories of women who suffered from male privilege and that way shook our world... Wait, don't tell me, this has been tried already?


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FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software

Posted Aug 30, 2009 4:55 UTC (Sun) by alankila (subscriber, #47141) [Link]

I forgot to mention one thing that bubbled in my brain but failed to find an outlet the last time...

Let's consider the word derailing. I'd like to argue that 90 % of the guys are probably making an entirely honest effort in trying to understand the feminist position. Unfortunately, they have been primed by widely circulated feminist statements like "all men are rapists" or similar blanket statements that finger them as guilty and on the wrong side for things they never did or planned to do.

Men judge these statements absurd and do not believe them, because we could hardly live with ourselves if all that was said about men by some feminists were true. Regardless, we are primed to be in a defensive, personal mood, even past what may be male biological conditioning: "I didn't do anything wrong, it's you who are being crazy and unfair". The consequence of this starting position will be an attempt to prove it, and thus follow the steps written in the derailing document.

Women seem to have categorically decided to not pander to men: they do not see any need to help us understand them -- after all, why should women sacrifice any iota more of their time and soul to help men -- but that has the unfortunate side effect of making it even more difficult to understand what women are saying at all. It's a bit like everyone was dug in their trenches and time of discussion went past decades ago.

That derailing document is biting and maliculous to the bitter end. This may be why it works. But that means that it is also unnecessarily difficult to read for even sympathetic audience. For a man, it may take an attitude of almost zen-like detachment to read it fully. As such, it can do more harm than good when you pull it into debate: it can easily feed the "women are crazy" side of the argument. Of course, you have much more real experience having presumably used that document in more than one occasion, but that's my take on it.

I would ask women to learn from Valerie Aurora's style. It's impossible to take offense with her style. I submit that words that get read are infinitely more valuable to those that do not.

FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software

Posted Aug 30, 2009 5:28 UTC (Sun) by hypatiadotca (guest, #60478) [Link]

Hey alankila,

I'm going to respond to your comments, but I won't likely be able to until tomorrow. If you're not likely to be back here or aren't checking the RSS feed, ping me at leigh at hypatia dot ca and I'll email you when I reply.

-Leigh

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