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LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 23, 2013
An "enum" for Python 3
An unexpected perf feature
LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 16, 2013
A look at the PyPy 2.0 release
Oh! You're right, I *do* hate myself!
Here's the problem I have with what RMS said: he made the wrong-headed assumption that all EMACS users, all geeks...are men. And you just did too. Can we stop with the marginalization?
OK, I'll bite. Sides of this issue you might not be considering
Posted Sep 8, 2009 12:02 UTC (Tue) by forthy (guest, #1525)
Why is it so difficult for you to parse expressions? I'm not
marginalizing anybody, I'm just making a generalized statement (would you
like it better if I write "70% women hate 70% of the geeks" or whatever
figures there actually are?). Most women are non-geek, just as most men
are non-geek. Most women "hate" female geeks as much as male geeks (or
even more, because they directly compete with this "knows-all-better" but
badly dressed, w/o makeup girl). We geeks all are marginalized!
The society is pretty anti-geek and pro mediocracy as such! And of course
most women approach men (and professions) with "mate selection mode"
applied. If you don't - I'm fine with that. But to explain "why are
there so few
xxx" (e.g. xxx=properly shaved, without ponytail) geeks, then
generalization works. Those few who are there are the exceptions. If you
fail to understand that you are an exception, please learn more about
yourself. And if you don't accept your own exception-state, you are
I just came out of a conference full of geeks. The only woman was the
wife of one participant, and she was only there for the social activities
(the geek parties). There was an obvious separation between groups, which
became visible when we started discussing about foreign language
interfaces (to C and other languages). The left side of the U-shaped
table was the side of Windows users who didn't see the problem with their
approach, because it works for them - basically one OS, two processor
architectures, of which they mostly support only one (32 bit x86). It
didn't work for the other side of the table, where the weird, bearded,
pony-tailed Unix guys where sitting (in fact, only one of us was actually
bearded and pony-tailed, but it is completely sufficient if you have one
of those in your group ;-), who have lots of different architectures and
OSes, and know of problems the other side never has heard of - and
therefore propose to use the C compiler (which is not available to Windows
And even though discussions like this bring up personal things, we can
get along with each others well. Technical discussions have to be hard,
it's about not giving in when you know that the other side is wrong.
There's a time where you are nice to your peers and there's a time where
you are rude. And sometimes, discussions like this bring up your
beard+ponytail state. Or your gender, if it differs. So what? If the
results are worth the hard discussions, it's apropriate. The occasional
women in this sort of meetings often is said to "have hairs on her teeth",
i.e. she masters this sort of discussion style perfectly.
And after all, as geeks, we won't compromise on a process that's
working just for having more girls in that field. Or other complaints,
like occasional sexual harassments: Come on, girls who go to a club are
more than occasionally harassed, yet the places are packed full with
girls. This is just a crazy argument. Unless, of course, you really hate
the male geeks, and therefore their sexuall harassment is much worse than
the ones of the guys in the club.
Posted Sep 9, 2009 3:00 UTC (Wed) by xoddam (subscriber, #2322)
One goes clubbing for the purposes of overt public exercise of one's sexual animal nature (well 99% of patrons do, some just like dancing or drugs or deafening music). People are there to show off their bodies and those of their partners if they have them. Plenty of people are there in order to advertise their availability, and it's a good bet quite a few intend to 'score'. The rules in a nightclub are, for this reason, very different from those on the street (your local red-light district partially excepted) or in a daytime workplace. Harrassment is still unacceptable, but the very definition of harrassment is different. Sex-related signals abound and they must be read and understood, and ambiguities tactfully resolved, before it is clear what behaviour is acceptable.
Technical mailing lists and websites are not sexually charged environments. Well, they *shouldn't* be.
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