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FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free SoftwareFSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free SoftwarePosted Aug 25, 2009 2:40 UTC (Tue) by tbrownaw (guest, #45457)In reply to: FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software by flewellyn Parent article: FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software
Well, we have to keep up with the storm of other clueless people who think that gender disparity is itself a problem, rather than a symptom of various causes, many of which are problems and some of which really are "our" (collective) responsibility (like the kind of culture that produced that one couchdb presentation...).
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FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 25, 2009 3:30 UTC (Tue) by Arker (guest, #14205) [Link] Well, we have to keep up with the storm of other clueless people who think that gender disparity is itself a problem, rather than a symptom of various causes And even you appear to be assuming that, even if it isnt a "problem" in and of itself it just has to be a "symptom" of other problems. I dont mean to pick on you but I certainly couldnt let that go without pointing it out. Even you dont seem to allow any possibility for cases where there are gender disparities that are not problematic nor a reflection of some other problem. I would be perfectly happy to see a lot more women getting involved in writing free software - I am not against that at all. I am definiately against the implication that a gender disparity indicates a problem ipso facto, however. If the fact of the matter is that relatively few women are interested in software development how does that indicate a "problem?" I worked in a female-dominated field for several years, there was no overt discrimination against males, no discrimination, it's just a fact that relatively few men are interested enough to choose it for a career.
FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 25, 2009 11:37 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]
The fact of the matter is that women are less involved in free software than they are in commercial software or CS as a whole. When asked why, people repeatedly cite experiences of sexist behaviour and abuse that wouldn't be tolerated in a commercial environment. So while the disparity itself may not be an ipso facto indication of a problem, there are plenty of other indications that there is one.
FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 25, 2009 14:21 UTC (Tue) by DOT (subscriber, #58786) [Link]
I think gender disparity in free software is definitely a symptom of a problem. The free software culture does not usually have a code of conduct, so as long as you provide code, nobody will care what kind of awful person you really are. Except that some people do care. Those will not feel welcome. My guess is that many women and some men are put off by the anti-social, sexist, insulting, and downright hostile behavior of a minority of the free software community.
FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 26, 2009 7:24 UTC (Wed) by frazier (guest, #3060) [Link]
I think is bigger than that. Women just aren't (as a whole) attracted to cutting edge development, software or hardware, open or proprietary. I've worked my share of startups and the women never (none of the few) put up the 60 plus hour weeks the dev guys did. Also, we never had a highly technical female applicant. We had a technical writer come in once, and she could sense our work hours and wasn't interested (understandably). The environments I've worked in were genuinely welcoming (as opposed to "Cool, we'll have a girl around") but there aren't many women in the field, at least in the settings I've been in, with high levels of skill and drive.
Certainly there are exceptions. Mary Lou Jepsen comes to mind. Lots of skill, lots of drive.
I did some temp work a couple years ago and there was a college age woman debating whether to go into software or something else, and everyone there (guys) were encouraging her to go into software. They weren't looking for eye candy. They (like me) welcome some diversity in the field.
I'm not a scientific sample, and am curious how others' experience with startups relates to mine.
FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 26, 2009 13:43 UTC (Wed) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]
I've seen women driven to do cutting edge work in other fields. Neuroscience, genetic research, surgery techniques. I believe their nonpresence in certain corners of software is symptomatic of a problem. If you wish to rationalise that, I cannot stop you.
FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 26, 2009 19:20 UTC (Wed) by maco (guest, #53641) [Link]
Yeah, the second shift presents some problems. Guys can get away with 60-hour weeks if they just make their wives / girlfriends do all the housework.
FSF to host a mini-summit on Women in Free Software Posted Aug 27, 2009 8:07 UTC (Thu) by frazier (guest, #3060) [Link]
...other than some of those guys didn't have a woman in their life, or roommates. I never visited their dwellings to see how clean they were, but I have guesses.
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