openSUSE to default to KDE [LWN.net]

From:		Michael Loeffler <michl-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA-AT-public.gmane.org>
To:		opensuse-project-stAJ6ESoqRxg9hUCZPvPmw-AT-public.gmane.org
Subject:		Decision made - openFATE feature 306967, KDE default
Date:		Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:56:58 +0200
Message-ID:		<200908201556.59333.michl@novell.com>
Archive-link:		Article, Thread

Hi all, 

the topic of a "default desktop" was raised in July as a feature[1] in our 
openFATE feature tracking system by a community member, and it was a subject 
of a lively debate within openFATE and on the openSUSE Project mailing 
list[2]. The default desktop is an issue that many openSUSE users and 
contributors are passionate about. 

After consideration of the project discussion I discussed the feature request 
further with the openSUSE Board and other leaders within the openSUSE project 
and came to the decision to follow the request: we will default the radio 
button to KDE in the DVD installer. Therefore, with openSUSE 11.2 release, the 
KDE desktop will be installed if the user accepts the default setting. Users 
can also choose the GNOME desktop at this stage. 

We want to make clear that both desktops are considered equal citizens within 
the openSUSE Project, and this will not have any impact on the quality of the 
GNOME desktop within openSUSE. GNOME will continue to be offered as a top-
level installation choice, and we will continue to strive to provide the best 
GNOME and KDE desktop experience.

Thanks to everyone for conducting the conversation in a professional and 
courteous manner and for the quality of feedback we've received. This shows 
the strength of our community, and it's good to know we can address the tough 
issues head on and remain focused on the project goals.

Best
Michael 

[1] https://features.opensuse.org/306967
[2] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2009-08/

-- 
Michael Löffler, Product Management
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex

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openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 0:09 UTC (Fri) by Beineri (guest, #39002) [Link]

You do imply that there was now a poll about which desktop to pre-select? Desktop popularity ratios are taken from installation statistics and previous user surveys though.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 0:23 UTC (Fri) by andyrajan (guest, #60383) [Link]

The discussion took place on openFATE here - openSUSE's feature tracking website. I don't think the change is that significant - the order of the desktops will still be alphabetical but the default radio button will be on KDE. The installer will still allow you to pick any of the other available choices as your default desktop.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 0:28 UTC (Fri) by Beineri (guest, #39002) [Link]

The fan-boying took place in openFATE - for the actual discussion look at the opensuse-project mailing list archive.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 1:24 UTC (Fri) by andyrajan (guest, #60383) [Link]

I don't think the change would have occurred without the fan-boying on openFATE. And in the end it's a fairly minor change I think.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 19:29 UTC (Fri) by Drummer (guest, #60382) [Link]

"Desktop popularity ratios are taken from installation statistics and previous user surveys though." My statement came from an article that I'd found ( http://www.osnews.com/story/21942/Should_KDE_Be_Default_o... )through a LinuxToday newsline. In it, there's a reference to a report on a survey that was done. (See http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/e/ec/Survey_openSUS... ). But there are approximately 12,315 respondents. For a year. That seems like a low figure of people who would have installed OpenSuse in the course of a year.
A more valid "survey" might have been done at the end of installation, when the user is asked to send in the information collected about their PC. Information that includes the kind of processor, amount of RAM, peripherals, etc., but no identifying information. It would be just as easy to tack on what options were installed (e.g. Desktop Environment) and take THOSE figures instead.
While I'm not saying that any KDE fanboys (or Gnome fanboys, or XFCE fanboys,...) might have skewed the figures in that survey, we've all seen online surveys where one person either logs in multiple times, or has a network that can be activated to vote one way or another. An automatic data collection at the end of an install would, at least, make it more difficult to skew the numbers.
I would have liked to have seen a "neutral" position retained, with helpful descriptions of each option, including both KDEs and XFCE. Maybe even "Console" (no DE).
I hope that explains my skepticism.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 23:12 UTC (Fri) by Beineri (guest, #39002) [Link]

> a survey that was done. But there are approximately 12,315 respondents. For a year. That seems like a low figure of people who would have installed OpenSuse in the course of a year.

What year? The web survey ran only a few weeks, was opt-in and could be only advertized to own users who follow openSUSE related news as their email addresses are unknown to the project.

> A more valid "survey" might have been done at the end of installation, when the user is asked to send in the information collected about their PC.

How shall a user know which desktop he will continue to use in long term right after installation before even trying them?

> While I'm not saying that any KDE fanboys (or Gnome fanboys, or XFCE fanboys,...) might have skewed the figures in that survey

You are heavily implying it though....

> An automatic data collection at the end of an install would, at least, make it more difficult to skew the numbers.

Oh really? Have you heard about Open Source? :-)

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 1:02 UTC (Fri) by nuno (guest, #60384) [Link]

KDE always had more users than gnome. The distro that started to change that was Ubuntu. Recently KDE lost a few users because nobody belived the developers when they said that KDE4.0 to KDE4.2 were developer releases (me included, but I endured the raid because gnome is too simple for me and the others I just don't like enough).

Anyway, this should make OpenSuSE better: good support for both Gnome and KDE, instead of good Gnome support and mediocre KDE support as some other distros have.

Good move!

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 9:25 UTC (Fri) by Sho (subscriber, #8956) [Link]

Speaking of which, Fedora is indeed an excellent KDE distro these days, thanks to the efforts of Rex Dieter and the others on the Fedora KDE team.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 10:42 UTC (Fri) by wstephenson (subscriber, #14795) [Link]

Agreed, and a great team to work with improving KDE generally, speaking as an upstream developer and as a friendly competitor.

openSUSE to default to KDE

Posted Aug 21, 2009 10:58 UTC (Fri) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link]

But this does not sound like a bad thing for Gnome? It's a change of defaults (and for me, is more of a signal to build some extra trust that KDE support will not slowly die within SUSE aka Novell - for a long time I was worried about that) .

However, I doubt that Gnome support will be dropped by Novell, who employs some key people in Gnome - and SLES still relies heavily on Gnome I thought. The posting does not indicate that this will change. So Gnome must still be supported on par with KDE for simple business reasons.