The Google Chrome OS
The Google Chrome OS
Posted Jul 8, 2009 16:07 UTC (Wed) by drag (guest, #31333)In reply to: The Google Chrome OS by kragil
Parent article: The Google Chrome OS
A framebuffer-only windowing system will be substantially more inefficient then X... It would eliminate your ability to play any sort of game, have good video playback, etc etc. The major side effects would be much larger increase in CPU usage and dramatically lowered battery life.
> I could be quite powerful, but not my cup of tea. But I am sure it will be more mature than your average Fedora/Ubuntu/OpenSUSE/Mandrake release.(Meaning less RC bugs)
I really seriously doubt that. It's the level of complexity that matters.. Make a simple Linux setup and it'll have less bugs, but it will have substantially less functionality and be much less capable then a more complex Linux setup.
Big complaints about Linux based netbooks involve difficulty installing software, getting new versions of firefox, installing favorite applications from Windows, setting up printers, setting up vpns, etc etc.
Unless Google OS is going to address those sort of things then it's going to be a failure out the gate. Those are things people require in their personal computers and are relatively easy to do in Windows. Pretending that people don't want flexibility and then creating a new OS that depends on eliminating 80-90% the functionality that you get from a Windows or Linux install isn't going to convince people that they can live entirely from Google's cloud.
The best thing Google can do right now to make a 'Google OS' is to take a Moblin compliant Ubuntu version and modify the GUI to make everything center around Google's online apps and services.
Posted Jul 8, 2009 16:46 UTC (Wed)
by iabervon (subscriber, #722)
[Link] (1 responses)
I think looking at this as competing with the Windows desktop is thinking about it entirely wrong. It's like saying that televisions are never going to be popular because they can't run people's favorite applications. The idea with this would be that it's just a web browser. It doesn't have a userspace that can run other native programs. Programs are all in Javascript or Flash, and Google is doing this because they think that the available sites are sufficient to do everything that people regularly want to do with their computers (at least, those people whose game playing is on consoles and flash).
Posted Jul 8, 2009 16:53 UTC (Wed)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link]
If you don't want to use X and you want good performance then you'll have to figure out your own acceleration framework. It won't be a simple framebuffer driver because a simple framebuffer driver provides no means to take advantage of any GPU features.
So, sure, you could possibly do Wayland or recreate the standalone OpenGL application, but for what purpose? Just so you don't have to use XCB?
Wayland has possibilities because GTK is ported to Wayland's native API and Google's Chrome for Linux uses GTK. But even then it's going to require a lot of work on Google's part to reach feature parity with just using what everybody else already uses. Think about multi-monitor support, HDMI output, input hotplugging, etc etc. There is a LOT of things that Xorg does for you that Google would either go without or have to recreate on their own.
Posted Jul 8, 2009 16:59 UTC (Wed)
by micka (subscriber, #38720)
[Link] (3 responses)
Google seems to have some big plans for the web browser. Maybe they hope they can make them run any sort of program. Just take a look at
Posted Jul 8, 2009 17:24 UTC (Wed)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (2 responses)
A framebuffer driver is just that.. you take information and you write it out to a framebuffer. It's a memory region. It does not get you any sort of OpenGL acceleration or hardware scaling or accelerated YUV to RGB conversion or anything like that. Your worse off, efficiency-wise, with a plain FB driver then you were back in VGA graphics days.
Xorg provides a framework for 2D and 3D acceleration. It's almost always going to have better performance then a simple FB driver unless something is severely broken.
If you don't want to use Xorg then you have to replace it with something else.
Wayland is a possibility and it provides it's own 2D and 3D acceleration whatnot. But it's not mature.
Posted Jul 8, 2009 19:55 UTC (Wed)
by endecotp (guest, #36428)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jul 8, 2009 20:44 UTC (Wed)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link]
Apologies to above people if they were thinking about DirectFB instead of just a plain "framebuffer".
Posted Jul 9, 2009 7:50 UTC (Thu)
by renox (guest, #23785)
[Link] (4 responses)
Given that in the 'Chrome OS' you'll use only web application, this will be 'solved' by not letting you use those traditional applications.
> getting new versions of firefox,
'Solved' again by not letting you use those applications.
> setting up printers,
The issue is the same here as the kernel is Linux the drivers are the same.
> setting up vpns, etc etc.
Solved by using https.
Now I must admit that I don't understand the interest of a Chrome OS compared to running Chrome on a normal Linux distribution.. You can already easily use Linux in a 'thin client' setup, so what's the interest of restricting it to running web application?
Posted Jul 9, 2009 8:13 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (3 responses)
Ha. :)
If you make it hard to use traditional applications it won't make people not want to use those applications, it'll just make them not want to run your OS.
> 'Solved' again by not letting you use those applications.
Yep. And users will 'solve' the problem the same way that they solved the problem for older Netbook "web centric" Linux OSes.. get somebody to install Windows over it.
> The issue is the same here as the kernel is Linux the drivers are the same.
Printer drivers are not Linux kernel drivers. They are userspace. You need to have some speciality programs to support crappy printers that are so dumb that they can't understand postscript, but even then they don't have anything to do with the kernel. It's done through things like libusb and printer port-over-USB and whatnot. It doesn't require much of anything from the kernel.
Then for smarter devices that can take postscript you still need ppd files and ghostscript-related stuff to modify and create printer-specific postscript pages on the fly.. that is if you want anything more complex then single sided page black and white print output. And for network printers you need to have SMB support, IPP, and all that sort of stuff. And then you need CUPS and you need to have applications to manage and configure them. Then you need to have a notification system so people can deal with printer queues and cancel print jobs and get notified when print jobs are finished.
Printer problems are all userspace problems. I wonder if Google is smart enough to figure out how to make a web application speek to a network'd laser printer... :)
> Solved by using https.
Except people very rarely use HTTPs for their work or even home VPNs. For the most part they are restricted to using whatever their work has set up for them or whatever came with their el'cheapo home router. Using something like IPsec, PPTP, or Cicso VPN will be much more common requirements.
Remember it's the user that sets the requirements for the OS. If the OS does not meet those requirements then the users are not going to change their requirements... they are simply going to use something else, and that something else is probably just going to be Windows.
:)
Posted Jul 9, 2009 16:39 UTC (Thu)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jul 9, 2009 17:33 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (1 responses)
But it still doesn't really help much. You still need a way to edit postscript files on the fly to add in commands for color or front-to-back printing. Then you still need a way to deal with network printers. And no 'native code' drivers exist for dumb inkjet printer, etc etc.
In order to do printing with 'just a browser on a kernel' your going to essentially have to recreate all the functionality provided by gnome printer dialog, samba, cups, ghostscript, gnome notification system, usb hotplug, network autodiscover protocol support, and probably half a dozen other little things. Printers are a huge PITA and I hate them and they are relatively hard thing to support.
Now granted it's certainly possible to have a browser handle all that, but it would be rather insane.
It is my fondest wish that Google would simply let a distribution handle that and do something like run 'Chrome OS' on top of a Moblin Compliant OpenSuse or Ubuntu OS.
Posted Jul 12, 2009 10:29 UTC (Sun)
by efexis (guest, #26355)
[Link]
The Google Chrome OS
The Google Chrome OS
The Google Chrome OS
> then X... It would eliminate your ability to play any sort of game, have
> good video playback, etc etc. The major side effects would be much larger
> increase in CPU usage and dramatically lowered battery life.
http://code.google.com/intl/fr/apis/o3d/
It's a plugin that adds javascript bindings to the browser. With that, they could even write something like compiz, games, etc.
The Google Chrome OS
The Google Chrome OS
The Google Chrome OS
The Google Chrome OS
> installing favorite applications from Windows,
The Google Chrome OS
Why not?
Printer problems are all userspace problems. I wonder if Google
is smart enough to figure out how to make a web application speek to a
network'd laser printer... :)
You only need to extend browser a
bit to make it possible to access raw printer device from it - and then
printer supplier can run printer driver in a box...Why not?
"In order to do printing with 'just a browser on a kernel'..."Why not?
...you're going to need for your webapp / cloud server to understand how to output your document in your printers language, and you're going to need your browser to let you send that file to your printer.
Why would you need your printer drivers to be stored locally, if your documents aren't?