| |||||||||||||
Credit where credit is dueCredit where credit is duePosted Mar 14, 2009 23:13 UTC (Sat) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)In reply to: Credit where credit is due by jspaleta Parent article: Ts'o: Delayed allocation and the zero-length file problem
Jef, your defensive and hateful attitude pretty well sums up (one of) the reason(s) that I gave up on Fedora after having used Red Hat at my home and in my consulting since the old Red Hat Linux 4.2 back in 1997 or whenever it was. Yes, I'm still working on migrating machines off of it. (BTW, instability is another major reason I gave up on Fedora.)
To think that a Fedora advocate, of all people, could have the gall to criticize *any* other distro's stability is nearly unbelievable.
I currently have Intel video. But I have experience with both NVidia's drivers and Fedora's FOSS Radeon drivers and Intel drivers. And NVidia wins hands down for stability. Which is not to say that my stability complaints end there. Not by a long shot.
It seems that the Jef Spaleta FUD-fountain flows eternal. Fortunately, the more it flows, the less credibility people accord it.
(Log in to post comments)
Credit where credit is due Posted Mar 14, 2009 23:46 UTC (Sat) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
Please, don't take my word for it. My word is work about as much as a piece of SCO stock...which I have to say looks like a safe bet as far as stocks go given all the other craziness going around right now.
How NVidia impedes Free Desktop adoption.
Linux Graphics Essay
"Nvidia isn't in the list of top oops causers as part of some grand strategy to make itself (and Linux) look bad. It's there because the cost of doing the QA and continuous engineering to support the changing interfaces and to detect and correct these problems outweighs the revenue it can bring in from the Linux market. In essence this is because binary drivers totally negate the shared support and maintenance burden which is what makes Open Source so compelling."
If you must, feel free to shoot the messenger. Make it personal if that's what you need in order to engage on the issues. I'm more than happy to take a few bullets. But for anyone who cares about sustainable growth of the linux ecosystem to disregard the validity of the information is pure folly. Binary drivers are a real and significant problem to the stability of linux systems. The people doing the actually development of the linux desktop realize this, even if individual users and the entire Canonical workforce do not.
-jef
Credit where credit is due Posted Mar 15, 2009 0:47 UTC (Sun) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767) [Link]
"""
Please, don't take my word for it. """
There surely was never any danger of that. If bias were black body radiation, you'd be glowing at about 3500K. (Which hurts your credibility substantially. And likely not just with me.)
Now, I certainly don't care for NVidia keeping their drivers closed source. But in my experience with graphics drivers under Linux (which goes back to VooDoo1 and the original, pre Daryll Strauss, glide driver, and having lived through the hell that has been FOSS Radeon driver, I'd have to say that on all the cards I've had, including some NVidias, the NVidia driver has been flawless compared to the big mess that the usually incomplete FOSS video drivers often seem to be.
I wish that were not that case. But it has been my experience for about 10 years now.
Credit where credit is due Posted Mar 15, 2009 1:15 UTC (Sun) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
I guess your 10 year streak of good luck is the silver lining of hopeful comfort for all the Ubuntu users running the nvidia drivers and experiencing lock ups when exiting World of Goo. And I'm sure the upstream kernel developers are willing to discount their own long experience looking at crash reports now that you've made us aware of your high regard of the nvidia driver's stability.
I like that vibe you've got going on there. One man's personal experience against a mountain of contrary opinion and evidence. That's the sort of awe inspiring situational awareness and view of the big picture that causes me to respect opponents to global warming and evolutionary theory so very very highly. I salute you!
I'm really glad the Ubuntu developers decided to finally enable kerneloop reporting so we can get a more comprehensive and unbiased view of the sources of instability in the Ubuntu kernel. Though I'm not sure they are in the kerneloops.org database yet. I personally fully expect that the Ubuntu experience will be much like the Fedora one in the kerneloops record. The proprietary drivers will dominate the crash reporting statistics...Canonical will introduce some bugs via patches, which will be quickly fixed (just as Fedora has)...but the proprietary driver bugs, like nvidia, will linger and linger...contrary to your singular personal experience.
-jef
Credit where credit is due Posted Mar 15, 2009 12:23 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
What's wrong with the FOSS radeon driver? I've had no trouble with it
(mach64 and now 9250). 3D is fast enough for my purposes, 2D is blinding (and is now even faster thanks to a not-yet-committed patch from Michel Dänzer to defragment the EXA glyph cache)... I've had a total of one crash in ten years, and that was due to a device-independent Mesa bug.
Credit where credit is due Posted Mar 16, 2009 1:18 UTC (Mon) by motk (subscriber, #51120) [Link]
I plugged a USB thumbdrive into my x86-64 machine running then nvidia driver last night and the driver crashed, hard. WTF?
Of course, anecdote != data, but the kerneloops website tells the story.
|
|||||||||||||