|| ||Andrew Shafer <andrew-AT-reductivelabs.com>|
|| ||[Puppet Users] Re: Community: How to deal with attempts at sabotage|
|| ||Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:27:23 -0700|
|| ||Article, Thread
The voice of reason has mostly prevailed in my opinion, which is the
sentiment that the right approach is not to worry.
Trying to be as objective as possible, AJ has contributed to the Puppet
community. He has submitted patches, triaged bugs and been helpful in both
IRC and email. He is still quite helpful in #puppet, and though sometimes a
tad snarky, he's not overtly subversive. He made a comment when chef was
only about a week old that he was surprised that more people weren't
changing or interested in chef from Puppet (I believe this was in #chef,
which I usually join and occasionally participate in). There is a psychlogy
to constantly convincing others of things in order to convince ourselves.
The bottom line is chef exists for a complicated set of social, economic and
technical reasons. I won't pretend to understand them all or that some of
the circumstances are not personally emotive. That's all spilt milk under
the bridge, as it were...
While some of the motivation for chef is clearly economic, I think 'sleazy'
is a bit harsh. Both of these frameworks are released as free and open
source. What long term business models evolve from that remain to be seen.
Is Ruby stealing people from Python or C++? The long term value of Reductive
Labs and Opscode are going to be determined by execution and intangibles,
not subtle differences in how to solve a technology problem. And to be
clear, that's really what we are talking about.
I have read enough chef code, cookbooks and discussion, in addition to
having the context of discussions in this mailing list, to know chef
admittedly learned a lot of lessons from Puppet. In my opinion, there were
also some lessons that were ignored.
The fact is this is 2009. Information flows at the speed of light. With just
a tiny bit of effort, people can find whatever they want, plus everything
related to that in seconds. I can't fully explain what I mean by this now,
but Puppet has and will derived benefit from chef and Opscode, directly and
indirectly. If nothing else, chef helped us to focus. There is plenty of
stuff going on behind the scenes and there is no point trying to police the
flow of information on public lists and channels.
Puppet is awesome, except when it isn't, and the best way to move things
forward is to address those and get back to making more awesome. That's what
we need to be worried about. Just more awesome, this is not a zero sum game.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Luke Kanies <email@example.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> The underlying assumption of membership in any community is that your
> participation is at worst neutral, and if possible positive.
> Communities, online or off, generally do what they can to protect
> themselves from detrimental influences, which is where policies,
> politeness, moderators, and all that come into play.
> Puppet's community has been both fortunate and awesome, in that it
> requires almost no moderation or control; we've only had to kick a
> couple of people out of our IRC channel and they were clearly just
> insane or spammers, and we've never had to remove anyone from our
> mailing list other than spammers.
> We've recently had some problems where one or two people are
> maintaining their presence in the Puppet community solely as a way to
> recruit people out of Puppet and into their community, at the expense
> of ours, and I think we need a straightforward community policy on this.
> Overlapping communities are awesome, and I'm all for your encouraging
> Puppet community members to join other communities *in addition to
> ours*, but it seems a bit insane for us to support people coming into
> our community just to evangelize competing products and communities.
> My take is that if your participation in our community is *solely* for
> purposes of shrinking it by drawing people into your community at the
> expense of ours, then you should be kicked from our community.
> What do others think? Should it be acceptable to privately contact
> members of our community, encouraging them to leave?
> Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
> -- H. L. Mencken
> Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com
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