Perfect example of Mozilla dishonesty and arrogance [LWN.net]

Perfect example of Mozilla dishonesty and arrogance

Posted May 15, 2003 9:41 UTC (Thu) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link]

> I'm lost of words.

You should be.

In response to this question from Thelem at Mozillazine on April 15th, 2003:

Subject: Product Names

"As these are just product names, they will presumably be fully refered to as 'Mozilla Firebird' and 'Mozilla Thunderbird', just as you would 'Microsoft Internet Explorer'?"

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075&message=44&state=reply

Asa replies:

"Yes. We have the Mozilla Firebird browser and the Mozilla Thunderbird email client.

--Asa"

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075&message=54#54

The point is not whether or not someone had an 'idea brewing in their head' of Phoenix being named 'Mozilla Browser'. After all, the original name of Phoenix was Mozilla Browser, or m/b, for short.

The point is that when the new name for Phoenix was announced, Firebird, it had not then been the consensus for 'Mozilla Browser' as the real name... like those clowns at Mozilla.org are saying.

They just came out later and said 'Yeah, that's what we meant all along... Firebird is just the project name for bugzilla'.

That, of course, is pure bullshit... and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone outside of the Mozilla community who would swallow it.

> If anything, you should be ashamed.

Me ashamed? You should be ashamed for thinking I would fall for such a flawed 'save face' effort.

BTW, why do you refer to the browser as Mozilla Firebird and the mail as just Thunderbird?

http://texturizer.net/firebird/

http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/

Is there a little 'political correctness' going on there?

Perfect example of Mozilla dishonesty and arrogance

Posted May 15, 2003 11:31 UTC (Thu) by djst (guest, #11214) [Link]

The point is that when the new name for Phoenix was announced, Firebird, it had not then been the consensus for 'Mozilla Browser' as the real name... like those clowns at Mozilla.org are saying.

I'm not saying that the announcement by Mozilla.org was made the best possible way (in fact I think they should have been more clear about the naming policy from the very beginning), I'm just saying that the plan is and has always been to call the browser Mozilla Browser. Period. Yet you keep accusing me for being a liar.

You should be ashamed for thinking I would fall for such a flawed 'save face' effort.

What I'm telling you is the truth and I will prove it.

BTW, why do you refer to the browser as Mozilla Firebird and the mail as just Thunderbird?

My sites are in no way official, but of course I'll rename the Thunderbird site too. It just hasn't been the #1 priority for me lately. They will both be renamed again when Mozilla (Application Suite) 1.4 is released.

Perfect example of Mozilla dishonesty and arrogance

Posted May 15, 2003 12:17 UTC (Thu) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link]

> I'm not saying that the announcement by Mozilla.org was made the best possible way (in fact I think they should have been more clear about the naming policy from the very beginning), I'm just saying that the plan is and has always been to call the browser Mozilla Browser. Period.

You are missing the mark entirely. I don't care that the name Mozilla Browser was "all still in flux and may change dramatically (may not happen at all)".

The POINT is that if Mozilla Browser was really the product name when the announcement was made on April 14th, 2003... like the lousy liars at Mozilla.org claim... then the headline for such a long-time anticipated announcement would not be:

"After months of discussion and further months of legal investigation, we're finally comfortable moving forward with new names. The new name for the Phoenix browser is 'Firebird'. The documentation and product strings will be updated soon. In addition to securing Firebird, we've also got the OK from those contributing legal resources to use the name 'Thunderbird' for a mail client. Hopefully this will be the end of naming legal issues for a while."

Do you understand that? Or are you so completely biased that you can't see the forest through the trees? Use your head for crying out loud.

I would believe you if the new name announcement on April 14th said something along the lines of this:

"The new name for the Phoenix browser is Mozilla Browser, code named 'Firebird'. The new name for the mail client is Mozilla Mail, code named 'Thunderbird'."

or...

"The new name for the Phoenix browser is Mozilla Browser, with the project name in bugzilla being 'Firebird'. The new name for the mail client is Mozilla Mail, with the project name in Bugzilla being 'Thunderbird'."

The problem is... the announcemnt said no such thing... not even remotely. Do you know why? I'll tell you why... because it was not a reality then like those misfits from Mozilla.org are claiming.

So when Mozilla.org tries to desperately save face and say that is what they meant... sorry boys, but that canoe is going down the river without a paddle.

> Yet you keep accusing me for being a liar.

I didn't say you were a liar. I said you were full of it and that the line your were trying to sell me was bullshit.

As far as liars go... the clowns at Mozilla.org are the liars.

Perfect example of Mozilla dishonesty and arrogance

Posted May 15, 2003 14:06 UTC (Thu) by djst (guest, #11214) [Link]

I wrote: The plan ever since the name needed to change has always been to use Mozilla Browser in the end

You replied: Mr. David Tenser... you are full of it, sir. That is a pure line of complete and utter bullshit and you know it.

How can I miss that mark you're trying to make? You're trying to suggest that I'm not telling the truth, which I am. The plan _has_ been to call it Mozilla Browser, and I already _did_ agree with you that the announcement wasn't the best. Use _your_ head instead of being impolite to people you don't know.

Perfect example of Mozilla dishonesty and arrogance

Posted May 15, 2003 15:12 UTC (Thu) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link]

> You're trying to suggest that I'm not telling the truth, which I am.

No. No. No. When I said... 'Mr. David Tenser... you are full of it, sir. That is a pure line of complete and utter bullshit and you know it.'... I meant that what your you were trying to get at with that email was bullshit.

I did not mean that I did not believe you got the email... I meant the point your were trying to make with it was bullshit. And it is... bullshit.

However, after re-reading this:

"The plan ever since the name needed to change has always been to use Mozilla Browser in the end"

I would call that a lie. Unless, of course, you are merely echoing what someone else told you... in that case, then they'd be lying.

> The plan _has_ been to call it Mozilla Browser, and I already _did_ agree with you that the announcement wasn't the best.

You're missing the mark again. You're trying to put it off as though the announcement itself was at fault... a giant typographical error, so to speak. It wasn't. The announcement accurately reflected the state of reality regarding the naming of Phoenix. The gross lies come in when Mozilla.org later claims that when the Firebird name was announced on April 14th.... it was meant as the project name only, with Mozilla Browser being the real name. That is pure bullshit. A despicable lie ponied up in an effort to save their sorry faces.

Mozilla.org == Sorry Bunch of Lying Bastards!

Posted May 18, 2003 12:19 UTC (Sun) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link]

Trademark registration is not required for trademark validity. Use in trade is sufficient. Trademark registration, by itself, doesn't establish the validity of a mark, but it does move the question into Federal courts.

Firebird is in the process of registering the mark "Firebird". The Mozilla group will have opportunity to explain to the US Patent Office their various quaint and creative reasons what Firebird isn't a valid trademark for a database but is for a browser. Then the venue will shift to Federal court.

The issues aren't subtle or difficult to master. Firebird has been using the trademark uncontested for three years. They're really nothing left to be said but determine damages.

To further add to my complete disprespect of the Mozilla community....

1. Mozillazine taking the Firebird name and appending a (TM) to it in their forums. In their flawed arrogance, they thought they were being cute. I look at as them acting like a bunch of backward ass nitwit twirps. Lucky for them they recently became endowed with the brains to remove it.

2. In a failed effort to save their sorry faces, they later claim that when they announced their name change from Phoenix to Firebird that they had meant at that time, and all along, that the Firebird was just the 'project' name... and that the 'product' name was Mozilla Browser. That, of course, is load of vile bullshit for several reasons.....

Here's the announcement:

"Asa Dotzler writes: After months of discussion and further months of legal investigation, we're finally comfortable moving forward with new names. The new name for the Phoenix browser is 'Firebird'. The documentation and product strings will be updated soon. In addition to securing Firebird, we've also got the OK from those contributing legal resources to use the name 'Thunderbird' for a mail client. Hopefully this will be the end of naming legal issues for a while."

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075

A. There is absolutely no mention, not even a remote hint, that the name Firbird is simply a project name. In fact, the supposed 'product' name, Mozilla Browser, as you can see, is not even cited.

B. If Firebird was meant as a 'project' name... then there is no requirement to 'run it through legal'

C. Asa Dotzler was even specifically asked what the *product* name would be by a community member:

"SUBJECT: Product Names
As these are just product names, they will presumably be fully refered to as 'Mozilla Firebird' and 'Mozilla Thunderbird', just as you would 'Microsoft Internet Explorer'?"

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075&message=44&state=reply

Asa's reply....

"SUBJECT: Re: Product Names
Yes. We have the Mozilla Firebird browser and the Mozilla Thunderbird email client.

--Asa"

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075&message=54&state=reply

In short, not only now is Mozilla.org a bunch of backward ass nitwit twirps.... they are also a bunch pathetic liars... unworthy of the oxygen that their putrid mouths rape from the earths atmosphere.