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You posted that in ignoranceYou posted that in ignorancePosted May 15, 2003 6:02 UTC (Thu) by roskegg (subscriber, #105)In reply to: Christopher Blizzard of mozilla.org Speaks on the Firebird Naming Conflict (MozillaZine) by epage Parent article: Christopher Blizzard of mozilla.org Speaks on the Firebird Naming Conflict (MozillaZine)
If you readt he original roadmap, Firebird always was a code name. The CNet article was missreading the Mozilla people clarrifying that as backing down when tehy were reiterating their stand from the beginning. Firebird was considered the name of the new browser until recently. It is you who are ignorant of history. There was no misunderstanding, and no clarification. Mozilla backed down because they were in the wrong, plain and simple. Because they continue to lie about it, the ill-will toward them persists. If they would publicly apologize and admit they were wrong, it would raise their stock immeasurably in the Free Software community, and we could all get on with our lives. Second they specify it to be Mozilla Firebird which means there is absolutely no room for legal question over it. If it was Firebird alone, the question was over how large of scope similar fields is, is it software? types of software? The advent of Mozilla Firebird is VERY RECENT. It was not the original plan, Firebird(TM) was the original plan, as posted in many places on the web, including the official Mozilla website. I was involved in convincing them to change all instances of Firebird(TM) on their website to Mozilla Firebird, which they did. For that reason, you can't go back to earlier documents on mozilla.org as "proof" of your assertion; they were altered, and I know because I was there. Check out the Mozilla CVS tree for the website, and you will see the truth. And third, what about all the other Firebird projects (Common one named FirebirdBBS)? Ann Harrison and others already addressed this piece of FUD in many forums, including Mozillazine itself. The fact that Chris Blizzard ignores what she says shows his arrogance and demonstrates his, and the Mozilla teams, continuing unwillingness to listen seriously to outsiders. Instead they are doing the minimum amount of listening necessary to make it look like they are doing something constructive so they can shut people up and make them go away.
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You posted that in ignorance Posted May 15, 2003 7:23 UTC (Thu) by djst (guest, #11214) [Link] <p><i>Firebird was considered the name of the new browser until recently. It is you who are ignorant of history. There was no misunderstanding, and no clarification. Mozilla backed down because they were in the wrong, plain and simple.</i></p><p>Mr Walther, you are simply <b>wrong</b>. Read my other reply in this thread which proves that you are. You shouldn't post wrongful statements without knowing what you're talking about, which clearly you don't.</p>
You posted that in ignorance Posted May 15, 2003 7:41 UTC (Thu) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link] > Read my other reply in this thread which proves that you are. You shouldn't post wrongful statements without knowing what you're talking about, which clearly you don't.David, perhaps you should read my prior reply to you as well. The only one posting wrongful statements here is you.
You posted that in ignorance Posted May 15, 2003 9:04 UTC (Thu) by djst (guest, #11214) [Link] The only one posting wrongful statements here is you. A statement which you simply cannot back up with any evidence of truth. Incidentally, I have the full message source at home, which I'll be happy to publish here. I'm posting the truth, nothing less. When I've posted the source, feel free to contact my ISP and verify that the email indeed was received on March 28th.
... Posted May 15, 2003 9:42 UTC (Thu) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link] > I'm lost of words.You should be. In response to this question from Thelem at Mozillazine on April 15th, 2003: Subject: Product Names "As these are just product names, they will presumably be fully refered to as 'Mozilla Firebird' and 'Mozilla Thunderbird', just as you would 'Microsoft Internet Explorer'?" http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075&message=44&state=reply
"Yes. We have the Mozilla Firebird browser and the Mozilla Thunderbird email client. --Asa" http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3075&message=54#54
The point is that when the new name for Phoenix was announced, Firebird, it had not then been the consensus for 'Mozilla Browser' as the real name... like those clowns at Mozilla.org are saying. They just came out later and said 'Yeah, that's what we meant all along... Firebird is just the project name for bugzilla'. That, of course, is pure bullshit... and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone outside of the Mozilla community who would swallow it.
Me ashamed? You should be ashamed for thinking I would fall for such a flawed 'save face' effort.
http://texturizer.net/firebird/ http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/ Is there a little 'political correctness' going on there?
... Posted May 15, 2003 11:36 UTC (Thu) by djst (guest, #11214) [Link] Nice cross-post. I've already replied to this message elsewhere in this thread.
... Posted May 15, 2003 12:28 UTC (Thu) by msutherland (guest, #11201) [Link] > I'm not saying that the announcement by Mozilla.org was made the best possible way (in fact I think they should have been more clear about the naming policy from the very beginning), I'm just saying that the plan is and has always been to call the browser Mozilla Browser. Period.You are missing the mark entirely. I don't care that the name Mozilla Browser was "all still in flux and may change dramatically (may not happen at all)". The POINT is that if Mozilla Browser was really the product name when the announcement was made on April 14th, 2003... like the lousy liars at Mozilla.org claim... then the headline for such a long-time anticipated announcement would not be: "After months of discussion and further months of legal investigation, we're finally comfortable moving forward with new names. The new name for the Phoenix browser is 'Firebird'. The documentation and product strings will be updated soon. In addition to securing Firebird, we've also got the OK from those contributing legal resources to use the name 'Thunderbird' for a mail client. Hopefully this will be the end of naming legal issues for a while." Do you understand that? Or are you so completely biased that you can't see the forest through the trees? Use your head for crying out loud. I would believe you if the new name announcement on April 14th said something along the lines of this: "The new name for the Phoenix browser is Mozilla Browser, code named 'Firebird'. The new name for the mail client is Mozilla Mail, code named 'Thunderbird'." or... "The new name for the Phoenix browser is Mozilla Browser, with the project name in bugzilla being 'Firebird'. The new name for the mail client is Mozilla Mail, with the project name in Bugzilla being 'Thunderbird'."
So when Mozilla.org tries to desperately save face and say that is what they meant... sorry boys, but that canoe is going down the river without a paddle.
I didn't say you were a liar. I said you were full of it and that the line you were trying to sell me was bullshit. As far as liars go... the clowns at Mozilla.org are the liars.
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