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Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowedApple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowedPosted Feb 14, 2009 4:35 UTC (Sat) by tgall (subscriber, #217)Parent article: Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed
There's another aspect of this not mentioned. There is a non-zero number of iPhones jail broken for the purpose of running cracked apps. There is probably a non zero number cracked just for that purpose and that purpose alone.
I would hope that as open developers we can acknowledge that this isn't respecting other people's copyright and is one activity that should be shunned.
Beyond running cracked apps, I don't really see much point of jail breaking an iPhone. The list of things that people can't do that they might want to do isn't that long and over time it's been getting shorter. People forget you couldn't even develop 3rd party apps for the blessed thing a year ago. The apps that were once getting rejected is getting far shorter than it once was. Besides given the apple SDK you can certainly create, run and install whatever.
I think there's larger problems here that are more deserving of time and attention. Is a jailbroken iPhone the solution to the way carriers sign you into a service plan in the US? Nope. Or break the carrier + hardware monopolies? Nope.
All that said, I'd like to see the DMCA struck down as much as the next person. Seems like politically these are the times to give it a try.
If Apple hauls someone into court using the DMCA for a jail broken phone, I'm going to pay careful attention for the reason of the complaint. It's easy enough to identify a jail broken phone after all. If it's just on account of a jail broken phone, ok yeah that's an evil use of the DMCA. If it's because they were say ripping off the App Store, then yeah, that's a legitimate complaint.
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Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 14, 2009 5:01 UTC (Sat) by leoc (subscriber, #39773) [Link] Beyond running cracked apps, I don't really see much point of jail breaking an iPhone.I don't have an iPhone, but I do have an iPod Touch that was given to me as a gift and it is unusable from Linux unless you jailbreak it, and even then it is a real pain in the ass. As I understand it, the iPhone is the same. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 14, 2009 6:02 UTC (Sat) by tgall (subscriber, #217) [Link]
Well there isn't a native iTunes for linux. Your best bet is running iTunes on Wine.
Besides that with the SDK it wouldn't be that difficult to create your own MP3 player and sync to Linux. SMOP. The 2.2 audio apis are drop dead simple. I would highly doubt that apple would let you distribute the app but you never know. Apps that duplicate Apple functionality are appearing.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 17, 2009 12:34 UTC (Tue) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]
Last I checked, Wine is no help because it lacks the necessary USB support.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 17, 2009 16:01 UTC (Tue) by tgall (subscriber, #217) [Link]
The wine project accepts patches.
Perhaps it is a little ironic to complain as a community about jailbreaking the iPhone for the purposes of unbounded development, but on the other hand complain about wine where the source is fully available.
Open source only works when folks pitch in to help with something that is of importance to you.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 20, 2009 3:13 UTC (Fri) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link]
> Perhaps it is a little ironic to complain as a community about
> jailbreaking the iPhone for the purposes of unbounded development, > but on the other hand complain about wine where the source is > fully available.
Your point would be what exactly? That a Free Software type should focus their efforts to get Wine up to being able to run the closed iTunes app that Apple will most likely break as soon as you get it running on Wine? And even if they don't break it as soon as it runs you still have a closed source app talking to a closed platform. A temporary solution at best.
I really don't understand the mental machinery of a Mac zealot posting on LWN, how you can doublethink your way around the contradictions. Maybe if you are a pure Open Source pragmatist you can avoid the head explodes part.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 20, 2009 3:58 UTC (Fri) by tgall (subscriber, #217) [Link]
> Your point would be what exactly?
My exact point would be when I hear a lot of griping about freedom and wanting to tinker with a device or system, it gets to be an interesting question as to how many of those individuals have invoked a compiler in the past week. Does it invalidate the 'right' of the smaller number of legitimate people? No. But neither does it invalidate the right of the designer of the device to create what was their vision, closed tho that may be.
> That a Free Software type should focus their efforts to get Wine up to
Indeed. But one does have to pick your battles in life. Likewise, crack a phone's OS where the crack has a limited useful life span, or maybe go with something from the get go where all the code is open? With that we kinda come full circle... there isn't much point to cracking an iPhone.
> I really don't understand the mental machinery of a Mac zealot posting
Yup Mac Zealot. Wonder what gave it away .. all these boxes of mine running Linux? Maybe it's those Linux patches I posted today... *sigh*
> Maybe if you are a pure Open Source pragmatist you can avoid the head explodes part.
How about if I rotate my head 360 degrees and spew green goo?
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 23, 2009 3:03 UTC (Mon) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646) [Link] Well, you ask how many of those who want to use their iPhone without running proprietary intrusive software like iTunes, and who have used a compiler last week? Since your rhetorically question is concerned to construct a straw men, let me answer it nevertheless: at least me.And, let me tell you: you are a deceiving member of the open source community, if you obviously don't even see that people might want to use their fully-paid hardware without resorting to lock-in software (iTunes et.al.) that only runs on closed-source operating systems and is security-wise extremely obnoxious. Lastly, but not respectfully, Sir, you show exactly one fact: We really need the functionality of KILL-files on LWN. Sigh, to paraphrase Henry: »Those who do not understand Usenet, are condemned to reinvent it, badly.«
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 21, 2009 20:06 UTC (Sat) by macros (subscriber, #6699) [Link]
Apple sending C&D letters to people trying to work on supporting the device in linux doesn't help at all.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 15, 2009 19:35 UTC (Sun) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]
More people run cracked applications on Windows than on Linux. I say we forbid any further distribution of Windows as it encourages usage of illegal software by design.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 16, 2009 20:13 UTC (Mon) by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698) [Link] Beyond running cracked apps, I don't really see much point of jail breaking an iPhone.There are many limitations of the iPhone that can only be circumvented by jailbreaking it. Want to run an applications that does something in the background? Can't do it without jailbreaking. Want to turn off the "phone" wireless, while keeping WiFi or Bluetooth active? Can't do it without jailbreaking. Want to use the iPhone as a means of internet access for your laptop or other devices? Can't do it without jailbreaking. (That may change in the future.) Want to be able to share data between two applications on the same iPhone? Can't do it without jailbreaking. The list of things that people can't do that they might want to do isn't that long and over time it's been getting shorter.No, it's getting longer, as people think up new things they'd like to do with the iPhone. Besides given the apple SDK you can certainly create, run and install whatever.Actually you can't. Applications you develop using the official SDK still run in a sandbox and have many limitations. The only limitation that compiling applications yourself with the SDK circumvents is that then Apple doesn't get a chance to disaspprove the application. I'm a codeveloper of some applications being sold in the app store. It's true that some people who jailbreak their phones might pirate my applications. Nevertheless, I don't think Apple should be able to use the DMCA to prevent jailbreaking phones in cases not involving piracy. As in the Betamax decision, the phone jailbreak has substantial noninfringing uses. Banning jailbreaking because some people use it to pirate applications would be like banning automobiles because some people use them as getaway cars for bank robbery.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 16, 2009 21:53 UTC (Mon) by tgall (subscriber, #217) [Link]
I don't think there is any debate that a jailbroken iPhone is able to do more things.
I do however believe that the assertion that are is a long list of things you can't do with the iPhone because it isn't jail broken is bunk.
> Want to turn off the "phone" wireless, while keeping WiFi or Bluetooth
Point.
> Want to use the iPhone as a means of internet access for your laptop or
All contracts aside that you've signed with AT&T saying you wouldn't.... actually you can do this without jail breaking. You forget there was even an app for sale at one time that did this.
> Want to be able to share data between two applications on the same
Technically you can. Granted it would be far better for Apple to have something built into the API. But again, the iPhone environment has evolved substantially over the past year.
Now will Apple beat random people over the head with the DMCA? We'll see. Given that Apple got the record labels to drop DRM I think they're a little more progressive then some might think they are.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 20, 2009 0:59 UTC (Fri) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link]
Good list but you forgot the #1 reason someone might want to jailbreak an iPhone.
The iPhone is apparently a fairly nice hardware platform with good Internet connectivity. The only thing it lacks is a working web browser. Apple thinks you can have a browser in this web 2.0 age without the Flash plugin, Java, Acroread etc.
I swear, if somebody could get Adobe to license the Arm port of their plugin, bundled with one of the Moz based embedded browsers and have it 'just work' and sell it at a reasonable price it wouldn't matter whether it was in the official App Store or not. Apple would either relent and allow it to be sold or see half of iPhones jailbroken within a year.
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 16, 2009 21:00 UTC (Mon) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link]
> Beyond running cracked apps, I don't really see much point of jail breaking an iPhone.
I jailbroke my phone so that I could run a VPN client I wrote[1] on it. I wrote that client for
Apple: why iPhone jailbreaking should not be allowed Posted Feb 17, 2009 4:18 UTC (Tue) by PLee (guest, #56686) [Link]
> Beyond running cracked apps, I don't really see much point of jail breaking an iPhone.
Mostly the point is to work around the restrictions put in place by the carrier. AppStore blocks such applications, but if you jailbreak the phone you can load anything.
For example, tethering a pc to the phone and running voip using a data connection rather than a voice connection isn't allowed (or attracts high data fees). However, put a sip proxy on the phone and you've set up two separate data flows - the tether is no longer there but you still get cheap voice calls. Apple is trying to protect the carrier against this as part of the deal that they will be the only network on which iPhones can be used.
Apple is in new territory here. With Mac's and ipods you've got expensive hardware with cheap, good software being the differentiator. This is a solid business model. The iphone is different.
With the iphone, the hardware is expensive, but they are also trying to control post-purchase behaviour. The problem is that iphones are "sold." They are in shops, in shopping centres and a "selling" environment. For Apple to turn around and say you can't mess with your own stuff doesn't really follow what people expect from a retail situation. If Apple's advertising was all phrased in terms of "rent an iphone" then fine, its clear it still belongs to Apple. You can't sell it and keep control.
Apple typically provides services around its products which people want, which are better than the competition and for which they can charge. e.g. calendar printing, It may be awkward but the user has the final say. Forcing people to do things goes beyond what even Apple normally do and will probably fail, as so many others have done.
Personally, I'm waiting for the hackintosh port to the G1...
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