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A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

By Jake Edge
December 10, 2008

The KDE office application suite, KOffice is getting closer to its 2.0 release. Beta 3 was announced November 19, with another beta due any day. The final release is expected early next year, so it seems like a good time to take it for a spin.

The beta releases are available for Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex (8.10), making it relatively easy to try out. There are also openSUSE and Debian packages available as well as source code (of course). The author didn't look forward to trying to build KOffice on his normal Fedora 9 desktop, so borrowing an Intrepid laptop from the wife was in order; after that enabling the "Unsupported Updates" and installing the koffice-kde4 package (which didn't seem to work through the GUI, but apt-get worked just fine) is all that it took.

[KPresenter]

The initial impression was a bit rocky as most of the small handful of ODF files that were opened caused KOffice to crash. It is a beta, though, so some of that is to be expected. Trying again with the imminent Beta 4 and filing bugs for failures should be high on the author's list. The one presentation file that successfully opened in KPresenter seemed to have lost much of the formatting that was present in the original, which was also disheartening.

It should be noted that the author is hardly an office suite "power user". Normally, OpenOffice.org is used for minimal business documents (invoices mainly), simple spreadsheets (expense reports, football pools), and boring, bullet-list slides for presentations (as anyone who has been to one will attest). By and large, these simple needs are met by OpenOffice, with the added bonus of being mostly able to open the various Microsoft-format documents that unfortunately cross the desktop. Any other office suite with similar capabilities would serve just as well.

[KPresenter]

Opening spreadsheets in KSpread provided the most reliable experience when opening existing documents, but there were still a number of problems. Formulas did not calculate automatically regardless of the auto-recalculate setting, but the data was there, unlike some of the other document types. KWord seemed to be unable to open any of the ODF documents tried, crashing in all cases. One "handy" .doc file opened, but the formatting and contents were mangled; OpenOffice can reproduce the formatting of that document pretty well. KWord also crashed on exit from that document. Perhaps betas are not the place to try opening existing files.

There clearly are many new features in KOffice 2.0, but the major ones, porting to KDE4/Qt4 and using the Flake object library throughout, are infrastructural in nature—they aren't obvious to users. Much like KDE 4.0, it would appear that KOffice 2.0 is a launching pad for subsequent releases.

[KPresenter]

There is an emphasis on a consistent user interface between the various applications which does stand out when using KOffice. For better or worse, the OpenOffice interface is fairly consistent between applications as well, but seems more cluttered, or more poorly organized somehow. Using Flake everywhere will be a boon to those who are power users as it treats everything as a "shape" that can be transformed (via scale, rotate, skew) and moved between any of the separate applications. Vector graphics can cohabitate with raster graphics and text easily.

Using KOffice 2.0 is fairly straightforward for simple tasks. It is noticeably slower than OpenOffice on the same hardware. Opening files, even empty documents seems to take an inordinate amount of time. Even moving around within KSpread or KWord seemed sluggish. Presumably these are things that will be fixed, whether that will be in the next few months or for KOffice 2.1 remains to be seen. This beta gives the impression of great promise, but not yet a very usable tool.

[KPresenter2]

Of course, there is more to KOffice than just the three applications mentioned. The database application Kexi is not yet part of the KOffice 2.0 release, nor is the Visio-like flowchart program Kivio. Two drawing applications, Karbon14 for vectors and Krita for raster graphics have been released with the beta. Other than a quick startup to see if the interface was consistent with the rest of the suite—it was—the author didn't try them. The same goes for KPlato, the project management and planning application, though it has a rather different look—no toolboxes on the right hand side—likely because of its very different needs.

Perhaps unfairly, the author expected a bit more from this beta release. It would seem there is still a fair amount of work to do before the final 2.0 version, but there are still a few months left. For whatever reason, previous attempts to use KOffice had always caused the author to quickly switch back to OpenOffice. Even though there were so many problems, this KOffice—or more likely 2.1—somehow seems more plausible to switch to. Another look in a few more months is likely called for.


(Log in to post comments)

Greek letters inflation?

Posted Dec 11, 2008 7:19 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

Ten or twenty years ago beta was "something more-or-less working but with some remaining glitches". I've used Borland Pascal 7 beta and Windows 3.1 beta for quite some time - yes, some rare functions were unusable, but in general it was quite solid experience (and Windows 3.1 beta supported real mode unlike Windows 3.1 retail). Today beta is "something which is barely works", .0 release is more like what yesterday was called "pre-beta" and .1/.2 releases are what was called "public beta". Or is it just the KDE thing?

Greek letters inflation?

Posted Dec 11, 2008 8:15 UTC (Thu) by Pinaraf (subscriber, #33153) [Link]

The problem is that we are lacking man power in the KOffice project.
We had to make some hard decisions because of that (for instance the choice of not
supporting tables in KWord makes me feel bad), but we couldn't have it another way.
Sure, it'd be great to have a 100% stable and fully featured office suite.
Just come and help us ! Report bugs, fix them...
I'm eagerly waiting for the bug reports, especially the crashing ODT files for KWord.

Greek letters inflation?

Posted Dec 11, 2008 8:44 UTC (Thu) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

As we have communicated really, really clearly and a lot of times: we
decided to do snapshot releases until soft feature freeze, alpha releases
until hard feature freeze and then beta releases until we thought KOffice
is stable enough for release candidates. Beta means here: no more features
are being added. You might disagree with us, but since we're the
developers, we get to decide what works for us.

Beta means features are frozen, not that it's stable

Posted Dec 12, 2008 18:41 UTC (Fri) by rvfh (subscriber, #31018) [Link]

I'm sure the features are great. Now I am just waiting for Kword to start opening documents without crashing straight away to have a look at them. So is the editor apparently.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 8:38 UTC (Thu) by pointwood (guest, #2814) [Link]

Lack of man power has been a big problem more or less forever for the KOffice project.

What worries me the most in this article is that KOffice apparently have become slower than OpenOffice.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 23:58 UTC (Thu) by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742) [Link]

Could it be that this is maybe not actually a koffice problem, but a
problem in the graphics drivers, as there was e.g. also for plasma ?

Alex

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 12, 2008 7:33 UTC (Fri) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

As far as I know we have only had one graphics driver related issue and
that is with using vector layers in Krita. That would be perfectly smooth
on my thinkpad with an intel chip and show as molasses on Thomas' Toshiba
-- but I don't know what chip that laptop had.

It's more likely that at this moment we have hardly optimized anything :-)

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 12:54 UTC (Thu) by tpo (subscriber, #25713) [Link]

In the past, when I thought I don't want to put up with openoffice any more, I made a round and installed and tried to use every other office product that was an apt-get install away. I think a have tried every kwriter release over the years. My experience was inevitably a variation of:

  • load a document that I was working on (either RTF (!), openoffice or word)
  • see kwriter immediately crash
  • or see that kwriter would barely even render the text contained in the document. Rendering anything like text properties, layout, tables or included graphics seemed out of the question
  • write a document in kword and save it in a "portable" format (ooo, doc, rtf) and witness the fact that kword would even crash on a, or wasn't able to render a document that it wrote itself

Thus in the past I was wondering if I was the single person in the world that just couldn't find a use case for koffice (crash/misrendering).

And now I read that the current beta seems to behave even *much* worse for the reviewer.

And I read in the comments that the koffice developpers are suffering from lack of manpower and that they define "beta" as "we won't add any more features".

I don't understand at all. What goal do you developpers want to reach? What users do you have in mind? Can you developpers use kwriter for some productive task? What does that task consist of?

I am and was very much willing to switch away from openoffice to something else. But the precondition is that I actually must be able to write some document in a "portable" format. Why does that requirement seem to have a much (?) lower priority than adding whatever features? Why isn't the priority to be able to handle whatever koffice can in a reliable fashion? Why have features that crash?

I am sincerely completely stumped.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 14:23 UTC (Thu) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

I'm wondering what it is you were doing... I've used KWord 1.x (note: not KWrite or KWriter) for years for all kinds of things, and very, very seldom had a crash. I've never ever had a problem loading a file I saved from KWord. My daughters used to use KWord for their school assignments; again no problems. Of course, I never was daft enough to save as .doc and hope that everything would load smoothly again, but on those occasions when I had to load a .doc file, I only had problems with certain types of images and with tables larger than a page.

(I have seen (and fixed two years ago) one problem with RTF, where the document got corrupted if the user had entered an author's name with an n-tilde in it.)

And, of course, KOffice is bigger than just KWord. There's a spreadsheet that's always been stable for me. In 1.x, there was Kivio, which helped me create diagrams and never crashed for me. There's Krita, which is, if I may say so, a pretty damn fine paint application with features you won't find anywhere else in the free software world. And so on.

We have always made very clear that we were not in the 100%-compatibility with Microsoft game. We are trying damn hard to make sure we fully implement ODF. That's your portable file format. Not rtf, not .doc, not ooxml, not an old open office file format. ODF what we consider important: all other file formats are of secondary importance. If you have a document you saved as ODT in KWord and which you cannot load back in KWord, let us have that document so we can fix the bug. And if we cannot load an ODF document saved in OpenOffice, let us know, too. It might be our bug, it might be a bug in OpenOffice.

We're also not trying to duplicate all functionality in OpenOffice or Micrsoft Office, and we're not limiting ourselves to the functionality in either suite, either. There is some genuine innovation going on in KOffice that will make things possible that do not exist in any other office suite.

Our goal with KOffice 2.0 is create and release a stable, extensible base to build productivity applications on that are easy and fun to create content with. We know we are not there: this review's findings are not a surprise to us. But we're getting there.

But what stumps me, tpo, is that you don't see that "we won't add any more features" translates exactly to "the priority is now to handle whatever KOffice can in a reliable fashion and fix all features that crash".

So, basically, what this series of beta releases means is that we are focussing on interoperability, stability and performance. Exactly what you'd expect us to do.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 14:36 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link]

I have nothing to do with anything, but I really do question this drive towards portability. I understand it, and why users need it - I'm just not sure it should be a priority for development.

From what I've seen of KWord, it actually works in a rather different way from most word processors; they adopt a stream-based model (you insert formatting into a long string of text), whereas KWord uses a frame-based model (you create some boxes and put text or other boxes inside them). So it's understandable that converting between the two is a bit of a nightmare, really, because it isn't just mapping formatting codes - it's a translation between completely different ways of organising data.

Unfortunately, the stream-based models have defined the standards - and whether you look at Word/OOXML or ODF, the standard was essentially synthesised from the implementation, rather than vice versa. Supporting a standard is dead easy when you wrote the standard by saying "what do we do when we get X?"... it's rather harder when you have to convert your own model to a totally different one defined by someone actively hostile to competition.

The other alternative one has when creating a piece of software is to track the standard in one's implementation. Which is great if you want to create a reference implementation for the standard; but when you didn't write the standard, there's all kinds of potential to run adrift on the ambiguity, errors and contradictions that any human-written document will necessarily contain. Not much point in implementing a standard slavishly, only to find out at the last moment that you've misinterpreted a key point and can't read anyone else's files anyway.

I suspect the only real way to cope with the mess of incompatible file formats is:

1. Everyone submits their own format, as unambiguously as possible, to a format guardian body.
2. The body publishes a universal format, which is essentially the superset of all format features, complete with a reference viewer implementation (the format is never intended to be edited directly).
3. Everyone produces a filter to convert their own format to this universal format, and to convert this universal format to their own (necessarily a lossy process).
4. Every time someone submits a new format to the guardians, they do so with the to-uni filter pre-written, and also explain which (if any) features they cannot convert into the universal format - at which point we all go back to 2.
5. Anyone not wanting to publicise their format need only implement the filters to gain some measure of compatibility, but they'll be in the same position as they are today.

Of course, this process will be slow, tedious, and prone to failures and politicisation. But at least it will still provide a space for innovation and development - one which is erased entirely when we're all at the mercy of de facto standardisation.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 20:10 UTC (Thu) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]

ODF is the standards-based format.

yes, it was initially submitted by one company based on it's implementation, but during the standards process it was modified based on input from others (including other opensource projects)

as a result the company that initially submitted the format needed to modify their software to correctly implement the standard.

I'm sorry to hear that Koffice doesn't think that it can implement the ODF standard, that means that I won't bother trying Koffice in the future (I need the documents that I create to be accessable to others, and I don't want a Koffice lock-in any more than a Microsoft Office lock-in)

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 20:16 UTC (Thu) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

Er, what? I don't know what or who year heard, but you heard wrong. In
another response in this thread I wrote "We are trying damn hard to make
sure we fully implement ODF. . That's your portable file format."

KOffice was the first office suite to make ODF its native file format.
KOffice hackers are on board in all the relevant standards committees. We
don't support OOXML (but then, neither does Micrsoft) -- but ODF is native
with us.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 11, 2008 21:08 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link]

I repeat, "I have nothing to do with anything". As in, "I've never even read KWord's source code, let alone having anything to do with its development". Sorry, I should probably have made that more explicit.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 13, 2008 20:08 UTC (Sat) by dirtyepic (subscriber, #30178) [Link]

This was pretty much my experience using kwriter a month ago to write a simple paper. It worked fine until i tried to indent anything, which would crash. I discovered I could cause a reproducible crash just by doing indent, space, un-indent, backspace. I filed a bug report which was closed as invalid because I use Gentoo.

Justified or not, after that i installed openoffice and haven't looked back.

I understand the koffice project is understaffed and the majority of focus recently has been porting to 4.0, but if i can't create a basic document, one that i could probably do in something like leafpad, i'm going to have to look elsewhere.

But i do wish you guys the best of luck getting 2.0 out the door regardless.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 13, 2008 20:11 UTC (Sat) by dirtyepic (subscriber, #30178) [Link]

s/kwriter/kword/g

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 14, 2008 9:14 UTC (Sun) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

What is the bug number? Because my bugzille foo must be really low today,
since I cannot find it.

But if the report is closed because you are using Gentoo, it was probably
justifiably closed. There are just too of ways Gentoo can mess up an
application. And in this case, tested with KWord 1.6 on OpenSUSE, I cannot
reproduce your crash at all. Which means that I can indeed "create a basic
document" -- and also some not very basic documents. Which means your
choice of Linux distribution prevented you from giving KWord a fair chance.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 16, 2008 0:22 UTC (Tue) by hppnq (guest, #14462) [Link]

What is the bug number?

I guess it is here. Interesting if not slightly suboptimal take on a bug report, if you ask me.

A look at KOffice 2.0 Beta 3

Posted Dec 16, 2008 4:00 UTC (Tue) by dirtyepic (subscriber, #30178) [Link]

that's it. though re-reading it now i wonder if i wasn't clear that i had tested both vanilla 1.6.3 and 1.6.3 with the patch from the other bug that sounded very similar to mine.

meh. either way i understand the sentiment of wanting to get 2.0 out.

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