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Reinventing the Fedora desktop

By Rebecca Sobol
November 12, 2008
Now that Fedora 10 is nearing completion, it is time to start looking forward to the shape of Fedora 11. Matthias Clasen started a discussion with a post to the Fedora-desktop list, including a pointer to the whiteboard where people can fill in their ideas. The page contains some ideas guaranteed to warm an editor's heart and a few which inspire rather less enthusiasm.

So what are the Fedora desktop people pondering? Some of the ideas include:

  • Removing icons from the desktop menus. The reasoning behind this change would appear to be "Windows and OS X do it that way."

  • Fixing up power management. Among other things, those posting to the wiki note "When the user changes the brightness, he doesn't appreciate if the computer turns it right back down again"; better late than never. Better power management also involves turning off blinking cursors, which would also be a welcome change.

  • "Better fonts" is on the list; that seems to translate to better and easier ways for users to install new fonts. There is some wondering about whether the current packaging system is really the best way to deal with fonts.

  • The volume control has been singled out for special attention. One of its claimed problems is the vast number of sliders which can appear for a complex audio device; it is true that it can become overwhelming. But playing "find the hidden slider" when some audio source is inaudible is not a better state of affairs. There is also a worrisome note to the effect that Windows has a better volume control because it is not removable. So, in the future, we may have a volume control whether we want it or not.

  • Replacing the panel altogether, along the lines of the ideas bashed out at the recent GNOME hackfest, is under consideration. This would, of course, be a major change to the desktop which would not be welcomed by all users.

  • Somebody has noticed that the flurry of "notification" windows can get a little irritating. So different approaches to notifications are being considered.

  • A new approach to system settings is also under consideration. The idea would be to get away from the "preferences" and "administration" menus in favor of a single window with a search feature.

  • There is talk of better location awareness, but it appears to be limited to mundane tasks like setting the time zone automatically. It seems like it should be possible to set more ambitious goals in this area.

  • The Fedora developers note that Ubuntu beat them to shipping a working "guest user" implementation. Surely they will now contribute to improving that implementation, rather than making their own...right?

  • Evidently users should not be asked to distinguish between hibernating the system (which saves memory to disk and powers off) and suspending (which keeps main memory powered up). To avoid this problem, Fedora might implement a "hybrid suspend" which saves to disk but still keeps RAM energized for a fast restart. There are a number of practical problems to solve in this area, not the least of which being that waiting for a full hibernate when you want to suspend the system quickly can be obnoxious.

  • Fast boot is, naturally, on the list.

There is a lot more on the list - far more than the Fedora developers can hope to implement (or even integrate) in the near future. But the process is a good one, and some of these ideas will certainly show up in future Fedora releases. With any luck at all, the Linux desktop will continue to improve for a long time.


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Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 13, 2008 3:16 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

"The Fedora developers note that Ubuntu beat them to shipping a working "guest user" implementation. Surely they will now contribute to improving that implementation, rather than making their own...right?"

Unlikely in this case. Fedora has implemented a "working" xguest functionality a couple of releases back based on SELinux. It hasn't been included by default however.

IIRC, the Ubuntu feature is based on Apparmor which is not merged upstream and doesn't seem to be in active development and it is unlikely Fedora will throw away its own earlier implementation rather than just polishing it up and including it by default.

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 13, 2008 21:05 UTC (Thu) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]

Just to further the FYI:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/xguest

Available for F8,F9 and soon F10.

Remind me again... how is AppArmor fairing towards being integrated into the mainline kernel. Anything changed since the lwn article last year?
http://lwn.net/Articles/254740/

Since Canonical has paid for a the manhours to expose an end-user feature that relies in part on AppArmor, is Canonical putting any engineering resources towards the effort to get AppArmor mainlined or will it continue to require kernel patches for make use of Ubuntu's version of this? Has there been an upstream Gnome discussion about integrating features which rely on AppArmor specifically as part of a restricted environment effort?

I see a mention of Selinux in Gnome's highlevel roadmap document at http://live.gnome.org but no mention of AppArmor. Far be it for me to suggest that the AppArmor approach is another deadend codebase... I don't know enough about the current state of upstream AppArmor interest. I hope its not as stale as my knowledge.

-jef

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 13, 2008 22:11 UTC (Thu) by Lovechild (subscriber, #3592) [Link]

I know that Novell fired the entire AppArmor team, supposedly they then started their own apparmor company but I have yet to hear anything from that camp. Nor have I seen the patches posted on lkml for review in ages.

Anyone have a status report on it?

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 13, 2008 23:11 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

You are referring to

http://www.mercenarylinux.com

Crispin Cowan, one of the most visible developers joined Microsoft and OpenSUSE has adopted (partially) SELinux support in their latest release

http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/08/23/apparmor-is-dead/

The kernel portions apparently have made some potential progress in getting merged upstream according to

http://james-morris.livejournal.com/35287.html

"Better fonts"

Posted Nov 13, 2008 5:00 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

For fonts, they could do a lot worse than switch the defaults to use the Linux Libertine font family. Me, I have my browsers set to override web sites' font choices, and so present all serif text as Libertine.

"Better fonts"

Posted Nov 13, 2008 16:57 UTC (Thu) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]

I guess it's better than that Bitstream atrocity that seems so popular, but I've just taken a look at that font and the quality of the hinting, especially in the TTF version, makes me want to weep. It's embarassing that the only free (beer) scalable fonts I've ever seen which are at all bearable to read at standard text sizes come from the msttcorefonts pack.

Rather than three or four projects all working on mostly identical fonts, it would be really nice (in imaginary land) if they could work together to produce a single font that's actually decent at, say, 10-12pt. This might take the form of providing bitmapped fonts for certain sizes - certainly there are open source bitmapped fonts which are very good.

(PS. Yes, I do know that good hinting is extremely difficult, especially using Fontforge; I've tried it. I'm still surprsed that *somebody* out there hasn't managed though.)

"Better fonts"

Posted Nov 14, 2008 12:59 UTC (Fri) by spaetz (subscriber, #32870) [Link]

You might want to look at the recently released version of Libertine which has improved hinting if you only looked at a distribution-supplied version of it.

Hibernate vs. suspend

Posted Nov 13, 2008 14:11 UTC (Thu) by Cato (subscriber, #7643) [Link]

I don't think erasing this distinction is really so simple:

- hibernate: should consume zero power, and is usually easier to get working

- suspend: should be quicker, can consume a small amount of power

If hibernate is really fast it may be OK to have a "suspend" that also does a hibernate - however it's not OK to have a hibernate that also does a suspend.

Hibernate vs. suspend

Posted Nov 13, 2008 16:01 UTC (Thu) by scripter (subscriber, #2654) [Link]

I certainly don't want to have the two options removed unless I can easily re-enable having the two choices. Why?

Usually I know what I'm going to be doing with the computer better than the computer does. For a desktop, I may want to unplug the power completely so that I can move it, or because the power went off and I want to save the state before the UPS runs out (I haven't bothered to connect my UPS to the computer for this to happen automatically).

For a laptop, I usually want it to sleep. But on the off chance I want to swap the battery, I would rather hibernate than sleep.

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 15, 2008 8:05 UTC (Sat) by dirtyepic (subscriber, #30178) [Link]

> Removing icons from the desktop menus. The reasoning behind this change would appear to be "Windows and OS X do it that way."

...and? Are users coming from Windows so baffled by these little picture things on their menus that they run screaming back to whence they came? :P

hooks for Network Manager

Posted Nov 16, 2008 15:09 UTC (Sun) by dmarti (subscriber, #11625) [Link]

We could use a per-user directory of NetworkManager hooks that applications could populate, and that NetworkManager would run when the network connection changed. Then you could post to Twitter when you hang out in your favorite cafe, set the time zone to your host country, close all your pr0n when you're visiting a school, and so on.

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 16, 2008 22:00 UTC (Sun) by hingo (guest, #14792) [Link]

The Fedora developers note that Ubuntu beat them to shipping a working "guest user" implementation. Surely they will now contribute to improving that implementation, rather than making their own...right?

Those damn Ubuntu developers, always leeching off other distro's work! Oh, wait...

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 20, 2008 18:23 UTC (Thu) by DYN_DaTa (guest, #34072) [Link]

Yes, wait.

The fact that Ubuntu devs contribute three or four things doesn't mean that they aren't leechers anymore :).

Reinventing the Fedora desktop

Posted Nov 20, 2008 19:59 UTC (Thu) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]

Are there patches to upstream gnome technologies which make the Ubuntu guest user possible? Are they incorporated upstream?

http://gould.cx/ted/blog/Right_side_status

suggests that there is at least one patch associated with GDM concerning guest user feature in Intrepid. Have the GDM patches been submitted to upstream? I honestly don't know. What else was patched to make this feature happen? How much of that patchset has been submitted to the appropriate upstream projects? Can't give them credit for contributing unless the patches were at least submitted upstream for review.

I can however, give Canonical credit for contributing to the upstream for eCryptfs-utils as part of the Intrepid Server feature deliverable. Hopefully for Canonical's sake that contribution shows up in the next survey of corporate backed " linux plumbing" contributions. The pam based login mount feature is a usability nightmare for modern desktop users, but for remote shell login users on servers I can see how it would be useful if it out performs the fuse based alternative. It's good to finally see Canonical contributing to upstream projects aligned with their business server focus without feeling the need to worry about less important desktop integration and usability issues.

-jef

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