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Fedora and long term support
Posted Oct 19, 2008 22:49 UTC (Sun) by wtogami (subscriber, #32325)
You claim to be impartial, yet I find many of your comments to be incredibly annoying and with half-FUD.
On this particular topic, dwalsh regularly responds to RHEL bug reports and updates test packages of RHEL5 SELinux policies. He wants people to try the latest crafted policies here which eventually get pulled into the next RHEL5.x update release.
Where is the bug that you filed for your issue? If you speak in generalities without citing real examples then you are spouting FUD.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 2:09 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
I don't claim to be impartial. I claim to be a RHEL/Fedora fan with some complaints. I'm sorry that you find my comments to be annoying, and take issue with your claim that they are "half-FUD". I certainly respect your contributions.
Please do not hide behind the "where's your bug report" facade. I may have reported it. But I think I worked around that irritation and moved on. IIRC, I had 6 retail stores to open that weekend.
Bugs in RHEL/CentOS are rare enough. I don't want to give the impression that they are not. But the bug I reference did make it through the process, bug number or no. And it's Fedora that's really buggy.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 10:55 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
There are many real world security exploits getting mitigated or prevented by SELinux. It is also getting adopted by Ubuntu and even OpenSUSE. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from all that but it seems obvious to me.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 14:04 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
Ubuntu provides the Selinux libraries in Intrepid. But the far more sane and less problematic AppArmor is used by default. I have not kept up with what the MS-Linux devs are doing. But last I looked, AppArmor was the default there, as well.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 15:34 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
Ubuntu doesn't seem to have included the latest policies yet but they likely will considering that Tresys is working on it.
I am not sure, Apparmor has a bright future considering Novell's action's.
It is unlikely, Ubuntu has developers working on it either. This is a still a solution that hasn't gotten upstream yet though it might change at some point
Posted Oct 20, 2008 19:02 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
That's pretty typical of my interaction with Fedora officials: "You are the user. We expect you to do the work".
No wonder Fedora has lost so much ground with Linux users over the last few years. I won't mention which distro has picked up all the ground that Fedora has lost.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 19:38 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
If popularity is the only argument for all the tired conversations, Windows must be fixing all their bugs to be so popular! Yes, Fedora does rely on its users to share some of the burden and I believe so does all Linux distributions. In this case, it is simple: You as a user report the SELinux bug you claim to run across and developers will fix it pretty quickly usually completely for free. Seems a fair deal to me. I am not going to install CentOS 4.7 to verify the bug you claim to exist.
A) Because I am not a CentOS user. I run Fedora on pretty much all my systems 24/7 and my primary system at the moment runs rawhide in part because I want to help fix bugs before it hits most users. That will help you, the CentOS user as well in the long run but not immediately.
B) The particular issue with printers is unlikely to be something I can verify easily considering that I don't have access to a printer at the moment.
If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. Good luck.
Posted Oct 21, 2008 3:13 UTC (Tue) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
I don't think so. Microsoft certainly must be doing a few things right to retain their popularity with the general public. Though, as we both must know, they do a few things wrong, as well. Conversely, Fedora does a few things right, and a lot of things wrong, as well.
Posted Oct 21, 2008 6:42 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
Posted Oct 20, 2008 23:27 UTC (Mon) by mmcgrath (subscriber, #44906)
That's so strange - all of our metrics, which are publicly available btw, show a continued growth in use of Fedora. As to which distro seems to have picked up all the ground we've "lost" which metrics / numbers are you referring to?
Posted Oct 21, 2008 3:01 UTC (Tue) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
Do I even need to mention it? No doubt the absolute numbers show an increase. Go Linux! Go Home Computing, and Computing in general!
But Fedora's percentage of the market has fallen dramatically in the last few years.
Posted Oct 21, 2008 3:11 UTC (Tue) by mmcgrath (subscriber, #44906)
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