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LK2008: The values of the Linux community

Posted Oct 12, 2008 16:00 UTC (Sun) by nlucas (subscriber, #33793)
Parent article: LK2008: The values of the Linux community

The proposed EU constitution, instead, is about 20 times the length, before taking into account other documents which are referenced. That document would appear to be somewhat bloated; the goals would be better served by a more concise formulation.

Except that the only people in Europe that call it a "constitution" are the the same ones against it (to make the document scarier for the common people).

It's not a constitution, is a treaty made by constitutional experts from dozens of individual countries made in a way that would minimize any change to the countries individual constitutions.

It tries to consolidate all the major ideas from every one of this individual constitutions into a single paper and that also means stripping some ideas that are not general (including some values that although accepted by the majority can not be signed without major changes in the constitution of some countries).

Any way, I'm no international law expert, so call it whatever you want...

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LK2008: The values of the Linux community

Posted Oct 12, 2008 21:47 UTC (Sun) by dark (subscriber, #8483) [Link]

I'll call it a Constitution just like the European commission does :)

http://europa.eu/scadplus/constitution/introduction_en.htm

http://europa.eu/institutional_reform/index_en.htm

LK2008: The values of the Linux community

Posted Oct 13, 2008 11:55 UTC (Mon) by nlucas (subscriber, #33793) [Link]

Have you read the last paragraph of the link you supplied?

Following the ratification problems encountered in certain Member States, the Heads of State and Government decided at the European Council of 16 and 17 June 2005 to launch a "period of reflection" on the future of Europe. The idea was to initiate a broad debate with European citizens. At the European Council meeting on 21 and 22 June 2007, European leaders reached a compromise and agreed to convene an IGC to finalise and adopt, not a Constitution, but a reform treaty for the European Union. The final text of the treaty, drawn up by the IGC, was approved at the informal European Council in Lisbon on 18 and 19 October. The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the Member States on 13 December 2007.

LK2008: brevity and constitutions

Posted Oct 23, 2008 12:39 UTC (Thu) by pdundas (subscriber, #15203) [Link]

There may be reasons why the "constitution" is as long as it it - but the original point (on the concise expression of powerful ideas) stands.

It's interesting to note that the GPL seems to be getting more complex as it evolves. Like laws and constitutions, almost.

Regarding the side-issue of whether the EU doc is a constitution or not - the first, rejected attempt was called a "constitutional treaty" in the UK ("It's not a constitution, honestly!" advocates said).

The second one is also a treaty, but its apologists say it's completely different because "it's not a constitution", some of the jobs like EU foreign minister have been renamed, a few more veto rights remain for the member states, a lot of text is now referenced rather than included, and it's worded as a set of amendments to previous treaties rather than a free-standing replacement treaty.

Sceptics point out that the provisions of the new version are almost the same as the old one.

You get to decide -- if you can read the thousands of pages, and you're either an Irish citizen, or a member of parliament in one of the other EU states.