Where have you found this "at this time" line? [LWN.net]

Where have you found this "at this time" line?

Posted Sep 24, 2008 16:36 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Android Walks Out of the Mist (Linux Journal) by bcopeland
Parent article: Android Walks Out of the Mist (Linux Journal)

It'd be very disappointing if the open phone was really only an open API, so I hope the "at this time" means what it says. Any official word from google would be nice.

Well, I certainly not 100% sure if this can be considered an "official word", but it says "Q4 2008 - Source code released" and it says so after "22 October, 2008 - Android 1.0 devices available at retail" so I don't see any source published before HTC Dream launch... I suppose developers are too buse trying to get the product out of the door - and source code release is also very involved process so they are setting it up like that: first - working Phone, then - source code (and it's still not known if it'll be possible to easily replace binary package with recompiled version)...

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Here's hoping

Posted Sep 24, 2008 16:48 UTC (Wed) by emk (subscriber, #1128) [Link]

"...and it's still not known if it'll be possible to easily replace binary package with recompiled version."

And that's what really matters, of course, at least for 3rd-party open source developers. I'm perfectly happy to pick up a (cheap) development kit for reflashing a phone's memory, but I actually want real hardware, and the ability to recompile the kernel and userspace.

A TiVoized kernel and userspace on all the nicest Android phones would make me really sad.

A question for our excellent editors: Do you have any information on how open these Android phones will be? I've been having a hard time finding straight answers.

That's simple...

Posted Sep 24, 2008 17:01 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

A question for our excellent editors: Do you have any information on how open these Android phones will be? I've been having a hard time finding straight answers.

And there are a good reason for that: you are searching for a black cat in a dark room where the cat does not exist. The whole platform is 100% open (or so the promise goes). But! There are the catch: they very specifically chosen the licenses which allow TiVoization. And that's because carriers want that. Google does not care. HTC does not really care. But T-Mobile does care. The catch is: I'm pretty sure it's still not yet known how much does it care. Will it allow you to replace firmware for the free? Will it allow you to replace it for a fee? Will you lose the warranty (probably yes - but to what degree?)... Questions, questions, questions... And since it's easier to open up the platform then to close it down... I don't believe that initial version will be truly hackable...

That's simple...

Posted Sep 24, 2008 18:58 UTC (Wed) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]

note that even if they do lock it down that far, there will be a lot of people who unlock it (just look at the iphone for an example where they don't even give you the source to start with)

but rather then assuming that this is locked down by an evil company, how about waiting until someone gets one in hand and tries it?

That's simple...

Posted Sep 25, 2008 11:51 UTC (Thu) by emk (subscriber, #1128) [Link]

Well, I have little enough desire to purchase a T-mobile contract in any case. If you want to experiment with your phone, the national carriers have always been a bad bet. Even if their phones aren't TiVo-ized, they usually have onerous contractual restrictions. After all, you're basically renting your phone.

At least in my part of the US, I've always had much better luck with the regional carriers. Unicel, for example, leaves their Nokia phones totally unlocked, and one of their salespeople was happy to explain all sorts of warranty-voiding phone modifications.

So what I'm really looking for is an unlocked phone, direct from HTC (or another Android partner), even if I have to pay full retail and pick up a developer kit. That way, I'll own my own phone, and will be able to hack on it in peace.

Tivoization of gphones

Posted Sep 26, 2008 22:11 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

they very specifically chosen the licenses which allow TiVoization. And that's because carriers want that. Google does not care.

I think Google cares. Remember that Google's interest in Android is advertising by Google on gphones.

First, it wants gphones in as many hands as possible. So if Google can leverage legions of engineers outside of Google to make the device work on all carriers, in all countries, and do all the popular things, that furthers that goal. Tivoization works against that.

And then from the other side, Google wants to make sure all gphones are somewhat identical so that its advertising works on all of them. Tivoization works toward that.