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LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

Posted Sep 18, 2008 9:03 UTC (Thu) by herodiade (subscriber, #52755)
Parent article: LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

  • The raw patchs numbers should be pondered by the size (number of employees) of companies, if one want to evaluate how good citizen a workplace is. Big corporations doing huge revenues from Linux mostly by selling proprietary components on top, having less than a few percent employees contributing f/oss and tons of marketing droids and devs on proprietary stuff, patenting everything in sight will produce more patchs than a 4-persons company of wich 3 are developers but that produce only free software. Which indeed don't mean the big corp is a better place to work for devs liking opensource.
    Think Adobe vs. Tresys, or Oracle vs. Hwaci, or Google vs. Linuxtronix.
    If Canonical would be found contributing an average 10 patches per employee while Novell would contribute, say, 5 patches/employee, then the GKH conclusion should be reversed: it would mean Canonical would be a better place than Novell for a developer that want to work with the community; it would mean they do a better job given their size/ressources.
  • GKH has been pretty clear about what he was accounting. He said Canonical is not big Linux plumbing (kernel, xorg, gcc, ...) contributor. Since their distro sells itself (or is mostly perceived) as a usable and polished desktop, maybe their works would show up in higher level, "non plumbing" components (like gnome and so) ? It would be interesting to have contributions numbers on the high level, desktop components.
  • The best effect this talk may have would be to reach Mark Shuttleworth ears. Then maybe he would think about those problems right at the design phase of his projects. That could prevent futures proprietaries launchpad like stuff, or their badly designed (wrt upstreaming contribution) online translation environment. Those are place where, imho, Canonical actual work with the community leave much to be desired. Mark had been deaf to that sort of comments on how Canonical work with upstream up to now. Thanks to such public bashing, he may eventually stop denegating problems.
  • There's a few commercial debian derived distributions that seems to make huge deals and money from linux nowadays (with the rise of umpc), but are so scarce contributors that we don't even think about accounting hem here. I think Xandros is competing for the Great Leecher title.


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LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

Posted Sep 18, 2008 9:39 UTC (Thu) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

> The raw patchs numbers should be pondered by the size (number of
> employees) of companies, if one want to evaluate how good citizen a
> workplace is.

Ubuntu/Canonical is the first to insist it should be given precedence because of its number of users. It can not ask to be considered as a small entity when there is work to do, and as a big entity when there are objectives to set. If Canonical wants to be taken as a big player, it must assume big player responsibilities.

LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

Posted Sep 18, 2008 18:24 UTC (Thu) by mdz@debian.org (subscriber, #14112) [Link]

A great majority of Canonical's work shows up in Ubuntu itself, not in upstream projects. Most of what we do is packaging and integration, making the whole mess actually work for end users, not writing it in the first place.

Sometimes this involves writing patches. Some of those patches are appropriate to contribute back, either to Debian (packaging patches) or further upstream (code patches). We try to do that, and we do a better job with some projects than with others. Some of the patches actually belong in Ubuntu and don't make sense anywhere else.

We've actually gone out and asked upstream projects for feedback, via a survey, and are working to improve collaboration with them based on that. This all comes down to having a personal relationship where both sides understand what to expect from each other.

Greg, unfortunately, prefers a different approach, which involves telling people with no influence over the situation how bad he thinks it is.

LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

Posted Sep 19, 2008 8:16 UTC (Fri) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]

You should notice that this is about appearances more than reality. Ubuntu appears to many users as one of the major distributions - the often-quoted top-three is Red Had, Novell and Cannonical. That is (and should be) surely something you can be proud off.

But this leads to people also expecting Cannonical to be in the top-three in terms of upstream contributions. And no matter how you put it, it is not.

This discrepancy tends to be very annoying to other organizations who are less visible, yet do more in terms of code contributions.

You could say Cannonical/Ubuntu simply does a better job at advertising its work. This is not in a small part due to the way it communicates and works - a rather revolutionary way (which has been copied by the Fedora and OpenSuse concepts). That's a good thing, don't get me wrong, but it creates a sense of unfairness in some minds, and rightly so.

A good solution would be to communicate more honestly about the amount of contributions Cannonical does. The general public will hardly notice it, and it won't hurt Cannonical in terms of marketing, but it will alleviate the percieved unfairness.

At the same time, Cannonical should obviously do whatever it can to increase upstream contributions. Putting the upstream work in numbers somewhere on the Cannonical/Ubuntu site would help in this regard, as it would make it one of the priorities in the Ubuntu community (and make the whole discussion more transparent at the same time).

LPC: Fitting into the kernel ecosystem

Posted Sep 19, 2008 16:16 UTC (Fri) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]

Correction... Fedora came first. In fact Fedora inspired Ubuntu's own effort to build "A better Fedora than Fedora."

If you have a hard time understanding where that quote came from, you should probably read this blog post, it is an excellent read:
http://gregdek.livejournal.com/32787.html

And this video is really nice too:
http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/09/16/video-the-histor...

-jef

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