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It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News)
Internet News
looks at Dell's new Inspiron Mini 9 sub-notebook.
"Except for a keyboard that omits the usual row of function keys above the number row, the Mini's specs match several of its competitors'. A glossy 8.9-inch display with 1,024x600 resolution shows most Web pages with no need for horizontal scrolling. Under the hood are Intel's Atom N270, a 1.6GHz one-core processor with 2MB of Level 2 cache, and GMA 950 integrated-graphics chipset.
The $349 configuration will feature a custom Dell interface atop Ubuntu Linux 8.04, much as Asus and Acer offer customized versions of Xandros and Linpus Linux, respectively."
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It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 2:33 UTC (Fri) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link]
The only way to get Linux pre-installed is to get the cheapest configuration and build on that. Sadly that means that matching the top Windows configuration sets you back a further $25 or so...
Looks like a nice machine, though. First computer in a while that I won't perform an OS reinstall upon arrival; between Ubuntu Netbook Remix and getting an officially supported, affordable Linux laptop, it's good enough to stay.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 4:46 UTC (Fri) by jwb (guest, #15467) [Link]
Oh goody, 1024x600! I hate the widescreen mafia.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 14:09 UTC (Fri) by mattdm (guest, #18) [Link]
That'd be just about 16:9, so it's "widescreen", just low resolution. (Or, as someone explained to me, "It's shortscreen!".)
Looks like only the HP2133 has a decent resolution (1280×768), but it's got a whole host of its own flaws.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 10, 2008 16:03 UTC (Wed) by Baylink (subscriber, #755) [Link]
Well, if they put an Atom motherboard in it and fix that moronic glossy screen cover, I'd buy one.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 19:22 UTC (Fri) by bfields (subscriber, #19510) [Link] They're offering linux preinstalled. No extra hoops to jump through. For a price within $25 of the Windows price. Break out the champagne, I say.Trying to understand Dell's pricing system will drive you nuts. Just buy what makes sense to you. (And if it really makes sense to you to buy the Windows version and do the Linux install yourself just to save the $25, then you've got different priorities than me, but OK.)
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 4:33 UTC (Fri) by gervin23 (guest, #13977) [Link]
Linux with 1GB/16GB = $449
Windows with 1GB/16GB = $449
Interesting.
I know Asus pulled some tricks with the hardware/pricing matrix to make Windows a more attractive buy but I thought Linux always ended up costing a bit less up front? [We all know it ends up much less in total cost :)]
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 4:43 UTC (Fri) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link]
> Linux with 1GB/16GB = $449
Note that the Windows unit comes with a webcam at that price. So you get Windows AND a Webcam for free. They are now paying you to take a Windows license. How long can these games go on before the monopoly is in trouble?
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 5:43 UTC (Fri) by qg6te2 (guest, #52587) [Link] Another fun bit when customising the Mini on Dell's site:
May delay your Inspiron Mini 9 ship date
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 7:18 UTC (Fri) by jamesh (guest, #1159) [Link]
That page also says you get 1 year of support on the device. Presumably the support for the Operating System makes up part of the cost.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 13:11 UTC (Fri) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
That's probably right.
With the netbook margins are so slim that getting one support phone call from somebody will blow any amount of profitability from the device. So this is what Asus discovered with the EEEPC.
If you think about it, it's pretty painful. And I do expect the Linux version will have more support calls. Despite good advances getting Linux to work with many common devices can be quite challenging.. for example Lexmark or Brothers printers. These things are extremely common things that people will want to use with a netbook.
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All I can say is "Support People who support Linux". I always make sure to buy the Linux version of any hardware if it's available.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 16:47 UTC (Fri) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link]
Or Canon. Of the major printer manufacturers, Canon is the one that seems to pretend that Linux does not even exist.
Ironic, considering their Mac drivers are basically CUPS drivers.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 19:40 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]
Lexmark are the same I think.
Avoid Canon like the plague..
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 9, 2008 10:56 UTC (Tue) by ekj (guest, #1524) [Link]
In contrast, my Lexmark laserprinter came with a big friendly tux on the packaging, with fine-print saying they support RedHat, Debian and Mandrake, and provide drivers that "should work with any recent cups-based system".
How's that for cluefulness ? I know I voted with -my- dollars. Please do the same.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 9, 2008 13:29 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]
Ooh, so Lexmark have copped on? Great! I'll consider them next time I need a printer so (if correct).
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 8, 2008 13:45 UTC (Mon) by pr1268 (subscriber, #24648) [Link] Canon is the one that seems to pretend that Linux does not even exist. Hehe, based on what the local morning radio show's DJs have to say, Canon apparently pretends that Windows Vista doesn't exist, either.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 19:19 UTC (Fri) by gervin23 (guest, #13977) [Link]
Good point and speaking of which, a friend of mine recently purchased a Dell Inspiron from Best Buy. It of course ships with Vista Kitchen Sink Edition but interestingly there was no software or drivers pre-loaded to handle the webcam. He, luckily for Dell, knew how and where to get it running. Now I know they're cutting costs here and there but they must be getting tons of calls from regular folk about this particular issue.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 14:27 UTC (Fri) by andrel (subscriber, #5166) [Link] Ubuntu will continue to cost more, unless ISVs stop subsidizing the monopoly.
This should surprise no one Posted Sep 5, 2008 16:37 UTC (Fri) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] In a world where Best Buy can charge $30, and people will pay, to get rid of the crapware that comes on a new Windows PC, we in the Linux camp have to drop the delusion that we should pay less for a machine with Linux on it. The vendor can make more money from the crapware vendors than it has to pay Microsoft for the OEM license, so it's essentially free.Actually, though, the crapware serves a purpose in helping enlist my family in the Linux cause. Our home machines dual-boot, but often Windows isn't booted for months at a time. Then all the crapware fires up, telling us that our 30-day free offer has expired, so we should go here, there, and over there to pay money to buy products we never asked for. My nontechnical wife and daughter are then eager to return ASAP to the OS that doesn't come with popup ads.
This should surprise no one Posted Sep 11, 2008 4:46 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link]
> In a world where Best Buy can charge $30, and people will pay, to get rid of the crapware that comes on a new Windows PC, we in the Linux camp have to drop the delusion that we should pay less for a machine with Linux on it.
And yet, with a bit of persistence it's still possible to get a refund from some companies on an unwanted Windows installation (well, people have done it) - so perhaps we should just be regarding that as a cashback offer?
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 9:44 UTC (Fri) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
Has anybody seen, in image or in flesh, one of these devices with a non-
English keyboard? I worry in particular about the Spanish keyboard, which needs a few essential extra keys that I don't think will fit.
The Spanish keyboard needs at least two keys between the L and the enter
The Spanish version of the Mini 9 is not out yet (and there's nothing but
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 12:03 UTC (Fri) by liljencrantz (subscriber, #28458) [Link]
Are there actually more keys on spanish keyboards? Swedish, Finnish, Norweigian and Polish keyboards all have to accomodate extra letters, but do this by moving various symbols to Alt-gr modified positions. For some reason, the shape of a couple of keys is also different.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 23:09 UTC (Fri) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
There are actually more keys. AltGr is only used for {}[]@#\|
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 6, 2008 6:44 UTC (Sat) by tetromino (subscriber, #33846) [Link]
No. The number of keys is exactly the same, they are just labeled differently. Have a look at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:KB_Spanish.svg and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:KB_United_Kingdom... and count the keys.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 6, 2008 19:35 UTC (Sat) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
Yeah, but check this:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:KB_United_States.svg
Intl keyboard Posted Sep 8, 2008 6:50 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] I use a PC105 keyboard with my regular, oversized computer. US layouts have 104 keys IIRC.On my US-layout Eee I have to prescind of the çÇ, which since I'm not Catalan is not a big sacrifice, in order to use the <> keys. But I still haven't found my backslash (~ on the US layout), nor any place to configure them in); just no room for it on the Eee.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 12:06 UTC (Fri) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link] What I find the most practical solution to do programming (with easy access to curly braces etc.) and writing with the same layout: Use US keyboard layout with compose:caps,compose:ralt in xorg.conf. To type e.g. ç, one has to type ALT + "c" and subsequently ",", for · (middle dot), one types ALT + "." and then "^". See Wikipedia for an incomplete list.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 14:37 UTC (Fri) by rvfh (subscriber, #31018) [Link]
us_intl is my favourite choice:
- "'" then "e" gives "é" - "AltGr + ," then "c" gives "ç" - "~" then "n" gives "ñ"
and so on. What else do you need?
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 16:42 UTC (Fri) by Hawke (subscriber, #6978) [Link]
Both options work well. I find that us_intl is better if you're often doing lots of accented characters (i.e. your preferred language has them), while the compose key works better when you only occasionally need accented characters. (e.g. you write in an accented language only with one or two friends.)
It's also worth noting that Gnome will let you set the compose:* layout options in its keyboard preferences dialog (Layouts tab, Layout options button, "Compose key position"). You can also (obviously?) choose the us_intl (deadkeys) keyboard layout in the same dialog.
keyboard options Posted Sep 5, 2008 18:43 UTC (Fri) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]
FWIW, KDE also offers the same options.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 23:11 UTC (Fri) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
Are you serious?
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 23:04 UTC (Fri) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
Wow, that sounds easy comfortable. Why don't you try typing ALT+"n" and
then "n" to get an "m" or ALT+"v" then "v" to get a "w"? That would also be fun.
OT: Input methods Posted Sep 6, 2008 0:48 UTC (Sat) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]
I wonder what solution you propose to type computer programs as well as text in various European languages, such as Catalan and German, with the same keyboard layout.
OT: Input methods Posted Sep 6, 2008 8:19 UTC (Sat) by dark (subscriber, #8483) [Link] I think a solution for typing one's primary language comfortably is more important. It's always possible to switch keyboard layouts temporarily when needed for short stretches in other languages.As for programming... people around here (Finland) seem to get by with / under Shift-7, and the braces and brackets under AltGr. It's really no more burdensome than having the parentheses and underscore under Shift, if you've learned it that way.
OT: Input methods Posted Sep 6, 2008 20:08 UTC (Sat) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
Yeah, you have to be able to write in a comfortable and *standard* way in your laptop. Those convoluted compose sequences might be good enough for typing in your language exercises, but they are not good enough for day to day use. Moreover, they are not obvious and require learning, and so render the computer unusable for casual users who might need to borrow the machine -- dads, neighbours, coworkers and significant others.
OT: Input methods Posted Sep 6, 2008 19:32 UTC (Sat) by irios (guest, #19838) [Link]
Well, I don't expect to write in *all* European languages with the same keyboard, but I would quite reasonably expect to be able to type in *Spanish* on my own laptop without finger-twisting tricks.
BTW, with the standard Spanish layout you can write in Spanish, Catalan, Galician, French, Italian, Portuguese, English, German and Dutch, and surely more. And that's without weird mnemonic sequences to explain to your mom or significant other whenever they borrowed the computer.
OT: Input methods Posted Sep 11, 2008 7:40 UTC (Thu) by ekj (guest, #1524) [Link]
Everyone I know simply use the standard keyboard-layout for their primary language, and deal with the special characters you need in programming being sligthly less accessible.
For example with a standard Norwegian or German keyboard, { is AltGr+7
Having to press two keys simultaneously to get those ones sure as hell beats needing arcane three-four button presses to get perfectly normal letters used in everyday language.
Sure, you could swap for programming, but it's not worth it. It's not as if the main component of programming is typing-speed, and I doubt the reduction in speed from using say Norwegian or German keyboard rather than english is even noticeable.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 6, 2008 6:48 UTC (Sat) by tetromino (subscriber, #33846) [Link]
The solution is exactly the same as for switching to any other non-English keyboard layout: set a different layout in xorg.conf, buy some transparent keyboard stickers (you can find them on ebay and similar places), and glue them onto the keys.
In other words, this is a non-issue.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 6, 2008 9:36 UTC (Sat) by tetromino (subscriber, #33846) [Link]
I was wrong, it looks like this really is an issue. If you look at a high resolution photo of the keyboard (e.g. http://laptops-and-computers.blogspot.com/2008/05/dell-ee...), it seems that there are only 7 keys between the English alphabet and the enter/shift/arrow keys - and there is no AltGr. A standard 104 or 105 key keyboard would have 8 keys plus an AltGr in those positions. So in this case, yes, you would have problems fitting a Spanish layout in there.
And Russian is also in a pretty bad situation: we need all the keys we can get, since the cyrillic alphabet has 33 letters. To fit the Russian layout onto the Mini 9 keyboard, I would need to abandon the slashes entirely (meaning they would only be accessible while switched to the English layout), and the period and coma would have to be moved to the key between the space bar and the left arrow (hello, carpal tunnel syndrome!) So it looks like I'll need to look for a different netbook now.
Actually for Russian it's quite good Posted Sep 6, 2008 10:26 UTC (Sat) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] To fit the Russian layout onto the Mini 9 keyboard, I would need to abandon the slashes entirely (meaning they would only be accessible while switched to the English layout), and the period and coma would have to be moved to the key between the space bar and the left arrow (hello, carpal tunnel syndrome!) Why will you do that? Slash will go to the 3 key, command and peroid to 6 and 7, of course, so no problem. You are losing "!", "=", "\" and ";" - and that's bad, but not too bad. One letter will also be moved to another row, but that's not a big deal as "э" is not very common letter... Looks like a pretty good layout to me... Not perfect, but quite usable...
Not enough keys Posted Sep 6, 2008 8:41 UTC (Sat) by dark (subscriber, #8483) [Link] Here's a review with a picture that shows the keyboard layout. Look closely at the keys between the space bar and the arrow keys. They squeezed some extra punctuation keys in there. I can't read the markings of the keys next to backspace and next to LCtrl, but if those are also punctuation keys then I count 11 keys dedicated to punctuation. That matches the number on a PC104 keyboard (US layout) and is one less than the PC105 keyboard (US layout).Since the extra key on the PC105 was specifically added to support European languages, you're likely to have problems fitting the Spanish layout on the Mini 9. Are there any keys that you don't use much anyway?
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 18:58 UTC (Fri) by DG (subscriber, #16978) [Link]
The Linux varient doesn't seem to be available from their UK store; unless I'm blind, or it's well hidden.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 8, 2008 20:53 UTC (Mon) by holstein (subscriber, #6122) [Link]
Same thing for Canada: the only option I got for "operating system" is "Genuine Windows, included in price".
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 5, 2008 22:32 UTC (Fri) by dulles (guest, #45450) [Link]
Forget the Linux v. Windoze debate. These UMPCs (Ultra Mobile PCs) are simply awesome. I installed Ubuntu 8.04 on my Acer Aspire 1 without any problems (except the broken wireless driver). I wanted to buy the Linux version, but all they had in stock was the XP version for $350. Not a problem, since I've got it dual-booting with Windoze games like Battlefield Vietnam running. While the screen is kind of small for gaming, the keyboard is good enough for working. For $350 you can't go wrong: 1.6GHz Atom, 1GB RAM, 120GB HD, etc.
It's Official: Dell Enters the Netbook Fray (Internet News) Posted Sep 8, 2008 11:31 UTC (Mon) by Tjebbe (subscriber, #34055) [Link]
Well, the fact that Asus has decided not to release the Linux versions of the Eee 901 and 1000 in our country made me decide not to get an eee (i have been waiting for the 901 since the first announcement).
It's not that I mind Windows so much (i do run it on my desktop machine), but I do not want to pay for something that i will remove instantly, and justify their (presumably marketing) figures by buying the windows version.
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