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Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC)
MAXIMUMPC
looks at the latest laptop offerings from Dell, which will use a
Linux-based OS front end.
"Another feature that Dell will be rolling out in the coming months is the Latitude ON technology, which, like the HP/Voodoo Omens Instant-On feature, is a Linux-based UI that loads instead of Windows. Dell execs said that they werent creating the OS themselves, but have partnered with a yet-to-be announced third party to create the embedded Linux solution (apparently not SplastTop). What will differentiate Latitude ON from HPs solution is that Dell is also utilize a separate low-voltage sub-processor to power the Linux OS, which in theory will let the laptop run for multiple DAYS."
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Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 14, 2008 23:45 UTC (Thu) by pr1268 (subscriber, #24648) [Link] I'm curious about the Linux-based "UI": Is this some kind of hypervisor on top of which the user can install an OS of his/her choice? On the one hand, I like this approach (and it stands to reason that Dell would be on the forefront of doing this), but on the other hand I'm baffled at all the possibilities of N-layered virtualization that this technique affords. Just think of it: A hypervisor interfacing with the silicon and metal; a host OS talking to the hypervisor; one or more guest OSes talking to the host; many different services and applications running on each guest OS, etc... If Dell does indeed pursue a business strategy of selling computers with only hypervisor-capable operating systems, then this could indeed be the demise of the evil Microsoft tax†. Yeah!! † Yes, I do know that Dell has been marketing Linux-based workstations and laptops for some time now, but a hypervisor-based strategy like this implies that Dell may abandon selling computers with Windows or (Ubuntu) Linux altogether. It's likely that other brand-name PC manufacturers would follow suit.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 14, 2008 23:58 UTC (Thu) by clugstj (subscriber, #4020) [Link] Dude, you are dreaming. It's just a Linux-based OS in flash that boots quickly.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 0:57 UTC (Fri) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link] Dunno, they claim days of runtime. That doesn't sound like they are just doing the same ol same old. Been saying for years OLPC should have used a non-x86 chip and so should the netbooks. You get better battery life AND you keep Microsoft from crashing the party.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 4:54 UTC (Fri) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link] The instruction set a CPU uses hardly affects power use at all. The OLPC uses a Geode. Intel's new Atom is very low power. The VIA stuff doesn't use much either. x86 has really just become a virtual machine on top of the *real* design, anyway.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 10:37 UTC (Fri) by eskild (subscriber, #1556) [Link] > x86 has really just become a virtual machine on top of the *real* design, anyway. Interesting point.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 11:38 UTC (Fri) by i3839 (subscriber, #31386) [Link] I totally agree with jmorris42. The lowest estimation I've seen on the added power cost for using x86 is 25%, because of the more complicated decode hardware. That's from realworldtech.com anyway. For a comparison in power use between Intel's Atom and TI's OMAP ARM see: http://realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&... What you call "not much" is a lot for ARM systems. I guess Dell uses an ARM based SoC for their ON thing, probably OMAP.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 12:51 UTC (Fri) by k3ninho (subscriber, #50375) [Link] I hope Dell uses an ARM based SoC for their ON thing, probably OMAP.There, fixed that for you. I don't say that to be snarky: I hope so too (and if so, the product is more interesting to me). Does anyone have a link with real details? K3n.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 16:09 UTC (Fri) by i3839 (subscriber, #31386) [Link] I'm not going to buy a Dell anytime soon, considering they don't sell Linux versions of the things I might buy here.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 16, 2008 4:07 UTC (Sat) by linuxlou (guest, #53401) [Link] You can get linux installed on them with no problems. And forget the latitude line, you can get one for as little $399 with a coupon. http://www.cheapstingybargains.com
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 15:26 UTC (Fri) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link] "The instruction set a CPU uses hardly affects power use at all." This is not true. x86 wastes a 'huge' amount of power just decoding the absurdly complex instruction format. When compared to most embedded ARMs and MIPS SoCs, the Atoms and VIA chips show a rather poor performance/power factor. The reason they are popular is because they target the area where users are going to want to start running 'normal' apps. And that, to them, means x86/windows.
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 4:56 UTC (Fri) by pr1268 (subscriber, #24648) [Link] Dude, you are dreaming. Am I? My post was meant more about the direction I think Dell is headed, not for what I hope will (or could) happen. But, I certainly welcome a mild debate. And thanks for replying! It's just a Linux-based OS in flash that boots quickly. Exactly. To clarify, I really didn't gather from the article that the "Linux-based front-end" sounded all that much like a full-fledged, feature-rich operating system, but rather a simple hardware abstraction layer that could theoretically support running any number of different OSes. Dell seems eager to either (1) give PC customers more freedom to install and configure their own operating system software on Dell's hardware merchandise and/or (2) abandon for good the vendor lock-in Microsoft has imposed on them. My assertions are based on the response from the DellIdeaStorm page and Michael Dell's own public admission that he uses Ubuntu on his own laptop. Among other news articles/blog postings/Web pages (I'm too lazy to find more links at the moment, but perhaps you get the idea). I'm not trying to defend Dell here; just stating my perceptions and intuitions...
Linux-based UI? Posted Aug 15, 2008 16:24 UTC (Fri) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link] That's what VMware GSX/ESX and Citrix Xen Server do: Linux kernel-based hypervisors on top of it you install multiple OSes that can run concurrently. Works great, unless you are a gamer, of course. Virtualized graphics acceleration is a tricky business.
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 15, 2008 5:31 UTC (Fri) by johnny (subscriber, #10110) [Link] We Linux enthusiasts complain that Windows comes with new computers, whether we like it or not. Well, now Linux doesn't come with the hardware - it comes *in* the hardware. Take that! ;-)
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 15, 2008 6:05 UTC (Fri) by branden (guest, #7029) [Link] ...and as a consequence, Linus will tell us we don't need the source code to Dell's in-chip version of Linux
Not quite so Posted Aug 15, 2008 7:27 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Linus will claim that while source code must indeed be provided there are no need to make it possible to actually compile and run it on the same hardware.
A fair correction Posted Aug 17, 2008 21:40 UTC (Sun) by branden (guest, #7029) [Link] The essence of Tivo-ization is "look, but don't touch", not "don't even look".
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 15, 2008 11:08 UTC (Fri) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link] How do I fix bugs there? E.g: I read somewhere that SpalshTop uses an old version of FireFox (that probably has a known hole or two) and also grants its user full write access to the system (to the partitions of the "real" system). If this is indeed the case it is alarming. Though I can't find the source for this news. So just consider it hypothetical. Who could have fixed that?
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 15, 2008 14:06 UTC (Fri) by endecotp (guest, #36428) [Link] > How do I fix bugs there? Normally it is possible to replace your BIOS ROM contents, and I imagine that this thing can be upgradable in a similar sort of way.
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 15, 2008 14:09 UTC (Fri) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] People have managed to figure out how to modify Splashtop. It's a 'live linux' style system based on squashfs, I beleive. Similar to knoppix. I think the difficult part is figuring out how to flash the memory on the motherboard. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=sp... This is a similar problem to what Asus did with the EEEPC. They shipped a version of Samba that was later found to have a vulnerability. I don't know if it's been fixed yet or not. Of course they relied on Xandros to provide the OS.
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 15, 2008 16:39 UTC (Fri) by arekm (subscriber, #4846) [Link] The sad thing about these new laptops based on Montevina platform is that support for switchable graphics [1] is NOT there. For Linux switchable graphics would be so cool... intel driver for normal, stable work and ati/nvidia if you want to play with 3D stuff that needs more power (and everyone knows that 3D drivers from ati/nvidia are far from being perfect or rock solid). Montevina also introduces DDR3 support - and again Dell puts only DDR2 into these notebooks. I'm waiting for next iteration of dell notebooks (or something from competition, Thinkpad T400 has switchable graphics and DDR3 for example) 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfcTPfNNppQ&feature=re...
Dell Announces 10 New Laptops (MAXIMUMPC) Posted Aug 16, 2008 14:28 UTC (Sat) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] Switchable graphics might be cool, but they're not going to be supported by Linux in the terribly near future. X just can't handle it.
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