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Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

ITWire reviews VirtualBox relative to VMWare and Xen. "VirtualBox was released in its 1.6.4 version just recently, on August 1st. It has the competition in sight and points out that it specifically will allow an unmodified operating system to run in its virtual machines. By contrast, Xen mandates the guest operating system be modified to suit. Where VirtualBox really comes into its own is that it is the only professional virtualisation solution that is freely available as open source software under the GNU General Public License (GPL.)"
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Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 7:04 UTC (Tue) by dany (subscriber, #18902) [Link]

I think, Xen is too open source software (GPL2). And supports full virtualization on newer
hardware. Am I wrong?

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 7:20 UTC (Tue) by danpb (subscriber, #4831) [Link]

That snippet of text from the article is rather mis-leading FUD

 - Xen does not mandate guest OS modification. Xen supports full virtualization using host
CPU's hardware virt extensions.

 - The claim that it is the only 'professional' open source virt solution is laughable. Xen is
GPLv2+ licensed and included in many Linux distros, (both commnuity & enterprise distros), as
well products from Citrix/VirtualIron. KVM is also fully open source & being incorporated into
major Linux distros for virtualization

 - VirtualBox's "professional" edition is not in fact entirely open source - the remote
graphical desktop RDP server is completely closed source, as is USB hot-plug ability (the
article does acknowledge this at the end, having previously said VirtalBox is the only
professional open source virt - rather contradictory)


Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 7:36 UTC (Tue) by sandholm (guest, #48477) [Link]

Poster danpb is correct.

Xen, when used with a cpu that supports VT, will run full virtualization.
And the article failed to mention QEMU, of which some parts have been used to implement KVM.
QEMU is OSS and supports full virtualization.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 8:40 UTC (Tue) by alankila (subscriber, #47141) [Link]

In a way, it goes beyond that. Virtualbox is partially based on QEMU, although the wikipedia
article for qemu suggests they have improved on QEMU through more static code analysis.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 11:41 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Does Xen+VT still have to bounce IO around between hardware, domain0 and guest?

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 10:09 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]

To me where VirtualBox stands out, and perhaps this is what they were trying to say (who
knows?)... is that VirtualBox is the only product that allows for fully virtualized machines
without requiring CPU hardware support (VT)... that is FOSS.  QEMU is nice but is emulation. I
do realize that QEMU code is used by a number of the products.

So, the line up of products that will do fully virtualized machines without VT include: 1)
VMware, 2) Parallels, 3) VirtualBox, and 4) QEMU (very slow without kqemu module).  Of the
commercial products (perhaps a better word than "professional"), VirtualBox is the only one
that offers a GPLed version... although as mentioned, it is a subset of the non-GPLed,
commercial version.  Oh, I forgot Win4Lin.  It is commercial and does not offer a FOSS
version.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 10:17 UTC (Tue) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

The thing about Virtualbox is that it's user friendly. It has a nice user interface and is
generally pretty easy to do.

For example the non-free one supports USB 2.0. You can use the GUI to add and remove USB
devices on the fly. It supports automatically resizing the Windows desktop so that you can
resize the VM display like any other desktop application. 

For the fully-free crowd KVM is probably the closest, but it completely lacks any sort of easy
user interface. It's one of the things that they really need to work on.

Xen, in comparison, isn't even on the map. It's much to much of a PITA to lift your OS into a
hypervisor to get Xen working. It's totally unsuitable for the sort of work that Virtualbox is
good at.

Now for server work, that's different. 

Now I like KVM and I think that it can do it all. Were you don't have hardware to support KVM
then Kqemu is pretty darn close-enough. But I can't comfortably tell my friends to ever use
that software since I know they won't be able to get the sort of stuff they need working
working.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 10:31 UTC (Tue) by marduk (subscriber, #3831) [Link]

virt-manager

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 11:58 UTC (Tue) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

Yes. I know it exists.

Still doesn't change anything. I am not talking about enterprise management of virtual
machines, I am talking about somebody using it on their laptop and wanting to connect hardware
and use Widnows on their Linux system fairly seamlessly. Two totally different kettle of fish.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 14:47 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

Virt-manager works for that use case for me just fine. Totally. 

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 15:17 UTC (Tue) by Los__D (subscriber, #15263) [Link]

For me too...

There's really not a big difference from configuring a new VM in i.e. VMware Workstation.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 11:33 UTC (Tue) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link]

the only way to run an unmodified OS without chip support is with emulation. Qemu, virtualbox,
and vmware all support this mode of operation.

if you can take advantage of the support in recent chips for virtualization, you can do less
emulation and gain a significant speed advantage.

but to claim that virtualbox doesn't so emulation, doesn't require chip support, and can run
unmodified OSs is incorrect.

Xen versus VirtualBox

Posted Aug 12, 2008 11:17 UTC (Tue) by leighbb (subscriber, #1205) [Link]

VirtualBox is a beautiful product - easy to use and pretty to look at. The downside is that it is very slow. I'd go as far as to say unusable for server virtualisation. I have six stripped-down Debian installations running on my machine and they are EACH taking around 6% of a CPU, while being pretty idle. This is on a dual-core Dell SC440 :-

leigh@scales:~$ ps -o "pid ppid pcpu comm" -u leigh | grep VirtualBox
 6007     1  0.0 VirtualBox
 6034  6024  6.0 VirtualBox
 6054  6024  6.1 VirtualBox
 6076  6024  5.9 VirtualBox
 6096  6024  6.0 VirtualBox
 6116  6024  6.1 VirtualBox
 6135  6024  6.0 VirtualBox

On the other hand I have an old P4 2.4GHz running Xen with 7 guests, that are in production (though that not busy), and the overhead is minimal. I use Debian so getting a domain up and running is relatively straight forward.

xentop - 18:09:05   Xen 3.0.2-2
7 domains: 1 running, 4 blocked, 0 paused, 0 crashed, 0 dying, 0 shutdown
Mem: 2095680k total, 1575500k used, 520180k free    CPUs: 1 @ 2411MHz
      NAME  STATE   CPU(sec) CPU(%)     MEM(k) MEM(%)
  domain04 ------      66044    1.9     393012   18.8
  Domain-0 -----r      17301    0.6     106648    5.1
  domain03 --b---      18649    0.6     130896    6.2
  domain07 --b---      20127    0.6     393064   18.8
  domain08 --b---      11386    0.2     130880    6.2
  domain33 ------      81066    0.3     261888   12.5
  domain10 --b---       3832    0.8     130828    6.2

NB: I've tweaked the output from xentop command to change the names of the domains and remove some of the columns.

Para-virtualisation is worth the pain, in my book, but its definitely horses for courses.

Xen versus VirtualBox

Posted Aug 12, 2008 15:31 UTC (Tue) by danieldk (subscriber, #27876) [Link]

On CentOS we have also seen comparable idle guest load. Setting the timer frequency
(CONFIG_HZ) to a lower value will often help much. Of course, it's up to you to decide if
that's ok for your workload.

There's more information here:
http://bugs.centos.org/view.php?id=2189

Xen versus VirtualBox

Posted Aug 13, 2008 23:00 UTC (Wed) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]

If you are doing a lot of Linux on Linux virtualization, check out the two OS Virtualization
systems available for Linux: 1) OpenVZ and 2) Linux-VServer.  Both are good but my personal
preference is OpenVZ.

Xen and KVM work well... but... OS Virtualization is much lighter and more efficient than
machine / hardware virtualization and provides much greater density and scalability.  The
large number of dynamic resource management parameters offered by OS Virtualization are a big
bonus too.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 12:11 UTC (Tue) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263) [Link]

Professional? Maybe, but not quite yet. 64-bit guest support missing ATM.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 12, 2008 13:13 UTC (Tue) by simonl (subscriber, #13603) [Link]

I find virtualbox is faster (and better) than vmware. This is for running a Windows guest on a
non-VT laptop.

Vmware worked well back in 3.x versions. Current release has timer problems in Windows (slow
keyboard repeat and animations), severe memleaks, loss of network when host IP changes,
suspend/resume problems, and more.

Virtualbox also has suspend/resume issues. It eats some CPU even when the guest seems idle.
And networking can be tricky to get working.

But I feel relieved. Windows guest runs smooth and feels much faster. Resolution changes are
quick and flickerfree. Kernel module compile/install is simple and painless.

I think we should appreciate that there exists a fully GPL'ed application of this quality.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 13, 2008 0:49 UTC (Wed) by lab (subscriber, #51153) [Link]

I find it a bit snappier than vmware as well, and dead easy to use. Very stable with an
extremely attractive feature set. On my debain machine it uses 0-2% idle CPU, but not
noticable on my machine's performance at all. I think it's a beautiful product, and just hope
Sun won't screw it up, since the repositories disappeared, and it became a download and
install only product. It would be great to have it 100% FOSS as well. If they can stay on the
straight and narrow, virtualbox should have a shining future.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 13, 2008 2:46 UTC (Wed) by luya (subscriber, #50741) [Link]

VirtualBox does not support any x86_64 media.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 13, 2008 6:45 UTC (Wed) by cannedfish (guest, #49561) [Link]

When I needed to use VirtualBox it had two serious shortcomings for me. First OpenBSD is still
not usable as a guest OS (on a Linux host at least). Second (this not VirtualBox's fault
obviously) Fedora doesn't have a VirtualBox package and if binary package from upstream is
used, one needs to recompile kernel module every time kernel is upgraded (which occurs
frequently on Fedora).

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 13, 2008 21:18 UTC (Wed) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link]

> Second (this not VirtualBox's fault
> obviously) Fedora doesn't have a VirtualBox package

Well in a way it is.  They like to issue press releases that they are a GPL product.  Fedora
is smart enough to read the actual license terms and realize it ain't even close.  The Free
Software edition is basically the QEMU bits that were themselves GPL and the bits of
VirtualBox that are so entangled with QEMU that they really have no other choice than release
them as GPL.  All of the user friendly bits and neat features (USB) are only available in the
closed binary blob.

You can't even redistribute a package built from the GPL sources without either receiving
their permission (which can't be passed down) or changing the name from virtualbox.  Although
Fedora manages to live with compromising their principles with Firefox, VirtualBox isn't
important enough to do a trademark deal and flamewar over.

So it will probably be outside of Fedora forever... but will probably show up in freshrpms or
another 3rd party repo eventually.

VirtualBox OSE is usable and available

Posted Aug 13, 2008 23:11 UTC (Wed) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]

I'm not an Ubuntu user but I do believe that the Ubuntu folks have plopped a package for
VirtualBox OSE into one of their repos.  Don't ask me which one.

I installed it for my father-in-law who is using LinuxMint.  I installed it primarily so I
could create a Windows XP virtual machine since my father-in-law is a recovering Windows user.
:)  Although I didn't use it for an extended amount of time, I really didn't notice much
difference between the OSE edition and the commercial version... although yes, there are some
features that aren't there.

Your comment made it sound like the OSE edition was basically unusable and missing all useful
features.  That is certainly not the case.  Also, if I remember correctly the Ubuntu package
had "VirtualBox" as part of the name.  Have they made a special agreement with Sun?  I don't
know but I doubt it.

Sun's FOSS VirtualBox hits the sweet spot for Linux (ITWire)

Posted Aug 14, 2008 7:03 UTC (Thu) by lysse (subscriber, #3190) [Link]

Although Fedora manages to live with compromising their principles with Firefox, VirtualBox isn't important enough to do a trademark deal and flamewar over.

Hmm - perhaps that's an indication that we need a distribution-agnostic WebKit-based browser for Linux sooner rather than later - it's the only reason I'm still using Firefox.

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