IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) [LWN.net]

IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

Posted Aug 7, 2008 23:11 UTC (Thu) by nitrofurano (guest, #53306)
In reply to: IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) by jospoortvliet
Parent article: IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

KDE4? if you could say KDE1 i would believe it, but KDE4?
My hope is only if Nokia (since they bought QT?) could clean up all KDE development, and get a
cleaner restart from KDE1 again - i really think it's deeply needed. KDE is really needed to
be kept small and simple, and since KDE2 it became completelly chaotic... and KDE4 became
painful.
I'm much more into Gnome, which follows a more solid human interface guideline.

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IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

Posted Aug 8, 2008 0:48 UTC (Fri) by qg6te2 (guest, #52587) [Link]

IMHO, it seems both desktops can't get it right. Gnome is oversimplified, while the options in KDE are tripping over themselves. A stab in the right direction might be to have "Advanced" tab(s) in both Gnome and KDE. Whether this is an "advanced config" on/off switch that is global or local to a particular application is another matter. Gnome folks may point out that this introduces "unnecessary complexity" and "more code paths to check". However, going too sparse also reduces usability -- e.g. digging through gconf-editor to find and enable an option (which are often not well described) can be rather painful.

IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

Posted Aug 9, 2008 19:46 UTC (Sat) by xtifr (subscriber, #143) [Link]

While I don't actually object to the idea of an "advanced" tab, I neither want nor need all
the settings in my face at all times.  One of the things I like about FVWM is that it's "set
and forget".  On those rare occasions (once every few years) when I actually want to change a
setting, I fire up my text editor.  The rest of the time, the settings are "out of sight, out
of mind", which is how I like it.  If it's something you only use every few years, what's the
point of even an "advanced settings" tab cluttering up the screen?  It's just one more random
thing distracting you from actually getting some work done.

While I'm not a fan of either Gnome or KDE, I find Gnome's approach far more promising.  Gnome
seems like something that could be turned into a decent desktop environment with a bit of
work; KDE doesn't.

So I don't think that "digging through gconf-editor to find and enable an option" is a bad
thing.  I think it's ideal, as long as those options are things I don't want to muck with all
the time, which, for the most part, they seem to be, from what I've seen.  Granted, the system
needs better documentation (unlike FVWM, which is extensively documented), but that's a common
complaint for FLOSS systems.

IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

Posted Aug 21, 2008 9:14 UTC (Thu) by Pocharngo (subscriber, #11839) [Link]

"On those rare occasions (once every few years) when I actually want to change a
setting, I fire up my text editor.  The rest of the time, the settings are "out of sight, out
of mind", which is how I like it.  If it's something you only use every few years, what's the
point of even an "advanced settings" tab cluttering up the screen?  It's just one more random
thing distracting you from actually getting some work done."

I disagree. I am afraid you overestimate many of us Linux newbies/ex-Windows converts. Most of
us have no idea of how to edit a configuration file, particularly if we do not have a clear
idea of what is possible to achieve. Even with good documentation files/Help systems, this
will be too much for most people with my background. With an "Advanced" button, at least we
can experiment without too much hassle. Or get an idea of what to ask the resident geek about.
:-)

IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

Posted Aug 8, 2008 7:34 UTC (Fri) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]

You're absolutely right. Doing usability by removing features (or not
writing them, due to lack of resources, then claiming "it's usability") is
a weak and ineffective strategy. It just leaves you with a less capable
system. You might make it easier to learn, but you'll also ensure the loss
of efficiency.

And you're right in claiming KDE 4.x right now does both things wrong: in
some areas we rewrote so much, we have too few features. In other area's,
we're not ready doing usability work and still have that overly-complex
KDE-3 interface.

But we're working on it. There are area's where we're getting there: not
too empty, not too complex, but powerful AND usable. It's what we're aiming
for, and we're doing it. That was what I meant with my first post - we're
aiming for something much more appealing than KDE 3 (too many features) or
Gnome (too dumbed down).

IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)

Posted Aug 8, 2008 7:07 UTC (Fri) by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742) [Link]

There is just so much wrong with your email.

* Nokia can't clean up anything in KDE development, since KDE is run by a 
free community

* is there actually something to clean up ?

* get a cleaner restart - well, we just had a very clean restart

* ... from KDE1 - this is just ridiculous. KDE 1 - nice back then, but 
quite monolithic, no unicode, no plugins, no Mac or Windows support - 
what should somebody do with this ?

* it became chaotic - I don't see anything chaotic

* KDE4 became painful - KDE4 is in the process of becoming ready for 
everyday use. 4.0 may have been painful, due to the "clean restart" you 
want and which we had.

Alex