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IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)Posted Aug 7, 2008 19:04 UTC (Thu) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164)Parent article: IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek)
He should have a look at KDE 4 and what's planned... I've been complaining about the linux desktop (both of them) chasing what essentially was Windows 95, but there is vision on the desktop these days...
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IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 7, 2008 23:11 UTC (Thu) by nitrofurano (guest, #53306) [Link] KDE4? if you could say KDE1 i would believe it, but KDE4? My hope is only if Nokia (since they bought QT?) could clean up all KDE development, and get a cleaner restart from KDE1 again - i really think it's deeply needed. KDE is really needed to be kept small and simple, and since KDE2 it became completelly chaotic... and KDE4 became painful. I'm much more into Gnome, which follows a more solid human interface guideline.
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 8, 2008 0:10 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] A *lot* of people switched from GNOME to KDE when GNOME 2 came along, because it was simplified to such a degree that it could no longer be made to work the way we worked: we had to adapt to *it* rather than vice versa. And, frankly, if I wanted a system that worked like that I'd use Windows.
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 8, 2008 0:48 UTC (Fri) by qg6te2 (guest, #52587) [Link] IMHO, it seems both desktops can't get it right. Gnome is oversimplified, while the options in KDE are tripping over themselves. A stab in the right direction might be to have "Advanced" tab(s) in both Gnome and KDE. Whether this is an "advanced config" on/off switch that is global or local to a particular application is another matter. Gnome folks may point out that this introduces "unnecessary complexity" and "more code paths to check". However, going too sparse also reduces usability -- e.g. digging through gconf-editor to find and enable an option (which are often not well described) can be rather painful.
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 9, 2008 19:46 UTC (Sat) by xtifr (subscriber, #143) [Link] While I don't actually object to the idea of an "advanced" tab, I neither want nor need all the settings in my face at all times. One of the things I like about FVWM is that it's "set and forget". On those rare occasions (once every few years) when I actually want to change a setting, I fire up my text editor. The rest of the time, the settings are "out of sight, out of mind", which is how I like it. If it's something you only use every few years, what's the point of even an "advanced settings" tab cluttering up the screen? It's just one more random thing distracting you from actually getting some work done. While I'm not a fan of either Gnome or KDE, I find Gnome's approach far more promising. Gnome seems like something that could be turned into a decent desktop environment with a bit of work; KDE doesn't. So I don't think that "digging through gconf-editor to find and enable an option" is a bad thing. I think it's ideal, as long as those options are things I don't want to muck with all the time, which, for the most part, they seem to be, from what I've seen. Granted, the system needs better documentation (unlike FVWM, which is extensively documented), but that's a common complaint for FLOSS systems.
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 21, 2008 9:14 UTC (Thu) by Pocharngo (subscriber, #11839) [Link] "On those rare occasions (once every few years) when I actually want to change a setting, I fire up my text editor. The rest of the time, the settings are "out of sight, out of mind", which is how I like it. If it's something you only use every few years, what's the point of even an "advanced settings" tab cluttering up the screen? It's just one more random thing distracting you from actually getting some work done." I disagree. I am afraid you overestimate many of us Linux newbies/ex-Windows converts. Most of us have no idea of how to edit a configuration file, particularly if we do not have a clear idea of what is possible to achieve. Even with good documentation files/Help systems, this will be too much for most people with my background. With an "Advanced" button, at least we can experiment without too much hassle. Or get an idea of what to ask the resident geek about. :-)
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 8, 2008 1:37 UTC (Fri) by Sutoka (guest, #43890) [Link] Hilarious. KDE 4 is both overly complex and far too simple at the same time. Maybe, just maybe, usability is more complex than simply gutting all the features.
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 8, 2008 7:34 UTC (Fri) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link] You're absolutely right. Doing usability by removing features (or not writing them, due to lack of resources, then claiming "it's usability") is a weak and ineffective strategy. It just leaves you with a less capable system. You might make it easier to learn, but you'll also ensure the loss of efficiency. And you're right in claiming KDE 4.x right now does both things wrong: in some areas we rewrote so much, we have too few features. In other area's, we're not ready doing usability work and still have that overly-complex KDE-3 interface. But we're working on it. There are area's where we're getting there: not too empty, not too complex, but powerful AND usable. It's what we're aiming for, and we're doing it. That was what I meant with my first post - we're aiming for something much more appealing than KDE 3 (too many features) or Gnome (too dumbed down).
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 8, 2008 7:07 UTC (Fri) by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742) [Link] There is just so much wrong with your email. * Nokia can't clean up anything in KDE development, since KDE is run by a free community * is there actually something to clean up ? * get a cleaner restart - well, we just had a very clean restart * ... from KDE1 - this is just ridiculous. KDE 1 - nice back then, but quite monolithic, no unicode, no plugins, no Mac or Windows support - what should somebody do with this ? * it became chaotic - I don't see anything chaotic * KDE4 became painful - KDE4 is in the process of becoming ready for everyday use. 4.0 may have been painful, due to the "clean restart" you want and which we had. Alex
IBM To Linux Desktop Developers: 'Stop Copying Windows' (InformationWeek) Posted Aug 8, 2008 8:22 UTC (Fri) by k3ninho (subscriber, #50375) [Link] I suspect you have been trolled. On LWN! k3n. made with -fNOLULZ.
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