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The critics are rightThe critics are rightPosted Jul 3, 2008 6:28 UTC (Thu) by Janne (guest, #40891)In reply to: The critics are right by mgb Parent article: The critics are wrong: KDE 4 doesn't need a fork (ars technica)
Again, what we have here is a bunch of complaints about KDE4, when in reality they should be about KDE4.0. "KDE 4 is seriously dumbed down by design." 4.0 might be, because they didn't have the time or the manpower to re-implement all the features and create GUI's for the options. In 4.1, those features are starting to make their comeback. "KDE 4 is unstable." Correction: KDE4.0 is unstable. "KDE 4 attempted to dumb down the file manager with Dolphin. " You still have Konqueror.... "KDE 4's new start menu is an insane joke. " It can be replaced with the classic menu in about 5 seconds.... "KDE 4's panel is not yet able to do 10% of what Kicker has been doing for me in KDE 3.5. " In 4.0, yes. In 4.1 things are considerably better already. "Now you may say that the KDE team is slowly changing it's mind on a lot of these issues " Not really. They are just implementing stuff that they didn't have time to implement for the 4.0-release. "You would be wrong, however, if you suppose that the harm was undone due to people like you praising every design flaw in KDE 4." There are flaws in KDE4.0, can you honestly say that there are flaws in KDE4? Do you base your opinion of KDE3 (which inludes KDE3.5.9) on KDE3.0?
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The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 10:28 UTC (Thu) by quintesse (subscriber, #14569) [Link] "You still have Konqueror...." Well, actually you don't, because Dolphin and Konquerer share the same file manager code. But it seems the Dolphin developers are busy getting most/all of the features of the old code back, so I'm hopeful. It just takes time.
The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 11:39 UTC (Thu) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link] "Well, actually you don't, because Dolphin and Konquerer share the same file manager code." Well, actually, you do. Konqueror the app is still there, and it still caters to the powerusers.
The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 11:52 UTC (Thu) by quintesse (subscriber, #14569) [Link] Well actually, no, because the file manager part is now the same as Dolphin, which (at this moment) is less functional. So you're definitely not going to get the same experience with the 4.x Konquerer as with the 3.x So yes, Konquerer itself has improved (if we look only at the "framework") and the KHTML part as well, but for those "power users", that like Konquerer so much, the file manager part has definitely been "dumbed down". But in the end it's only temporary. A lot of work is still being done.
The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 13:49 UTC (Thu) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link] "So yes, Konquerer itself has improved (if we look only at the "framework") and the KHTML part as well, but for those "power users", that like Konquerer so much, the file manager part has definitely been "dumbed down"" "Dumbed down" implies that features were intentionally removed. And that is not the case. Those lost features are coming back as we speak.
The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 16:36 UTC (Thu) by mgb (guest, #3226) [Link] Many features were deliberately removed and are only now returning thanks to overwhelming pressure from KDE users. IIRC a lot of the justifications for the initial KDE 4 direction (now slowly reversed) were made on Aaron's blog. I have to rely on my memory because Aaron's blog was recently made invitation only (not read only).
The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 16:43 UTC (Thu) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link] You're taking too much credit if you think that features deliberately removed and are implemented only because of overwhelming pressure of users. I have an archive of all of aaron's blog entries since january 2007 and there's nothing that bears out your delusion.
The critics are right Posted Jul 3, 2008 23:24 UTC (Thu) by quintesse (subscriber, #14569) [Link] "Dumbed down implies that features were intentionally removed" You're right, that was not my intention. I want to state that personally I'm perfectly happy with KDE 4, even with 4.0. I've been using it since Fedora 9 came out (compiled from source and played around with it before, but not as my main DE) and am eager to know where it will all take us. What I don't care about is the tone discussions in "the community" (if such a singular beast exists) are taking as of late. Pity.
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