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Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Posted Jun 6, 2008 19:28 UTC (Fri) by jhoger (guest, #33302)
In reply to: Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net) by drag
Parent article: Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

>Microsoft _will_ lower the licensing costs to suit new markets. They
>don't want to and will resist, but if the choice is between making 10
>bucks for a computer sale vs 0, then they'll pick 10 bucks every time

Yeah but you're unrealistically ignoring the fact that R&D costs money
that has to be paid back. Sure MS can sell for $1 or $10 per copy, or
they can pay you to take the OS. That kind of dumping is a short-term
marketing gimmick.  In the long run they have to make money. They tried
that with Netscape. But it worked, right? No, it didn't. Firefox is the
best browser out today and growing in market share.

They won't pick $10 price over the long term. If margins get so slim
that they can't pay back their investment and make money over that,
they'll drop the product, period.

The deal is the competition (Linux writ large) doesn't have to make any
budget numbers and can still continue. Slow and steady wins the race
here. If Canonical or anybody else brings to market software that is not
ready it will be much more damaging than if they Do It Right.


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Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Posted Jun 6, 2008 21:54 UTC (Fri) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

> But it worked, right? No, it didn't. Firefox is the best browser out today and growing in
market share.

Well... Yes it did actually. Microsoft _won_. Netscape provided a threat because they sought
to provide a web-based platform for replacing the OS as the main factor in running
applications. Microsoft succeeded in holding back this evolution by about 15 years now, and
counting. 

Because of their control over how the web operates they manage to subvert all sorts of
network-based and cross-platform application technologies. Everything from effective
Javascript/CSS, Java applets, and Xul to X Windows. The 'best' thing that people have going is
f-ing flash.. because Microsoft allows plugins for their browsers. Nothing else is allowed to
penetrate Microsoft's desktop. They hold the gates to the internet for 95%+ people out there
and they are very careful about what they let in.

They can't hold it back forever, but so far cross-platform, network-based applications haven't
made much of a dent.

> The deal is the competition (Linux writ large) doesn't have to make any budget numbers and
can still continue. Slow and steady wins the race here. If Canonical or anybody else brings to
market software that is not ready it will be much more damaging than if they Do It Right.

If you look back on the history of computer software and hardware virtually every time quick
and cheap has won out over slow and quality.  The rabbit never sleeps on the race track when
billion of dollars is on the line.

They need to be quick and have quality. It's very very tough.

I believe that once Linux gets a market share between 10-20%, similar to were Firefox is now,
then that will be end of Microsoft's dominance. The monopoly will be broken and Microsoft will
have to compete on a nearly level playing field. Quite possibly start open sourcing
substantial parts of it's portfolio to stay competitive.

Of course I know this is a non-issue for the vast majority of people involved in Free software
and Open source. I am just talking in terms of OEM support and Linux on the desktop
initiatives.

-----------------------------


> Yeah but you're unrealistically ignoring the fact that R&D costs money that has to be paid
back. Sure MS can sell for $1 or $10 per copy, or they can pay you to take the OS. That kind
of dumping is a short-term marketing gimmick. In the long run they have to make money.


As long as they protect their core profit makers from Linux (business contracts and mainstream
PC sales involving the insanely profitable Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office) then they
can afford to give away their software for very little money for other things.  In fact it may
even be a requirement to keep their current markets to sell windows for cheap for these
'netbooks'.

It's a loss-leader. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

They can maintain their profitable markets by selling to other markets at below cost.
Software, being software, it costs zero to make copies. It's like owning a money machine if
you can protect your core profitable markets from competition.

Right now you have all this infrastructure for Windows. Microsoft has schools at every level
training people on Microsoft software. They have Mom and pop computer stores and things like
Geek Squad that cover their support costs.  People regularly pay hundreds of dollars to have
other people reinstall Windows and their applications after a virus destroys their OS.

Businesses see very little upfront costs in training users... As long as they specify that
employees are required to have a college degree of some sort then those employees already paid
the money to get themselves trained for Microsoft software.

All this support, all this infrastructure at all levels of our society are geared at
maintaining Microsoft software and absorbing the negative costs of it. Microsoft is
effectively isolated from these costs.


What is there for Linux? No school, no Circuit City will fix your Linux box. There is no
support for it. Most of the software people are familiar with won't run on Linux without
headaches. Businesses have to absorb all the costs of training for Linux. Right now users are
forced to download, install, and maintain a complex OS in a way that they have never been
required to do for Windows. If I go to the local computer shop and show them a Linux system
and ask them to fix it they won't have a clue.

Microsoft will do everything they can, anything they can, to prevent Linux from getting any
sort of mainstream acceptance.

If these linux-based 'netbooks', and other extreme low-end systems, continue take off then
they will fail.. hardware fails, software has bugs. People will want to run the software on
the netbooks on their PCs and almost all of it is open source. 

This creates a economic demand for supporting Linux. Stores will want to hire people with
Linux skills. Small and medium businesses will start to see Linux and open source software for
the first time. Schools will have Linux systems, and students of all ages will see and use
open source software. 

That's it. Whatever Microsoft loses to Linux it will never get back. They know this. Like sand
through their fingers.


This is how Microsoft works:

When I started learning Linux the only place to get it was from the bookstore. I couldn't
download it, I didn't know anybody that used it for anything. The reason I started with it is
because I was working on a network administration degree and I couldn't afford the Microsoft
software to use at home. I got lots of junk PCs for free, but I couldn't afford the software.
I knew that the school wasn't doing a good job, so I was forced to learn most of this stuff on
my own. (and learning Linux worked fantastically)

Towards the end of my degree Linux was starting to get mentioned. We were all poor, all
students, and couldn't remotely afford the software that we were learning to use. Linux was
fantastically powerful system, but few people had any understanding of it.

You know what happened? Microsoft started a sweeping program to give students who were
enrolled in 'IT'-related degrees no-cost software. I went into the computer lab, filled out my
name on a piece of paper, and was handed cdroms and software keys by the handfuls. I got XP
home, XP pro, Windows 2000 pro, Windows 2000 server, Windows 2000 advanced server, Windows
2000 datacenter. I could get any development software I wanted, I could get software for a
entire LAN of computer and do a real-life active directory environment for zero cost in
dollars. I walked away with legal copies of probably 15-20 grand worth of Microsoft software
and it didn't cost Microsoft a dime. 

Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Posted Jun 7, 2008 8:25 UTC (Sat) by roc (subscriber, #30627) [Link]

> They hold the gates to the internet for 95%+ people out there
> and they are very careful about what they let in.

Actually, IE share is 73% and decreasing.

While it's true that Microsoft can survive a steep decline in OS revenues, it will definitely
hurt them. Wall Street will not be happy, the stock price will decline, shareholders and
employees will become more unhappy, management will have to think more carefully about the
bottom line and stop funding certain projects, etc. This process has already started; for
example, Microsoft Research has stopped hiring in most areas.

Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Posted Jun 10, 2008 17:29 UTC (Tue) by lotzmana (subscriber, #3052) [Link]

> What is there for Linux? No school, no Circuit City will fix your Linux box. There is no
support for it. Most of the software people are familiar with won't run on Linux without
headaches. Businesses have to absorb all the costs of training for Linux. Right now users are
forced to download, install, and maintain a complex OS in a way that they have never been
required to do for Windows. If I go to the local computer shop and show them a Linux system
and ask them to fix it they won't have a clue.

It is very hard, almost impossible, for software vendors to distribute software to users of
Linux OS. Even if software is open source/free, the channel goes only via the update of the
entire distribution. This is not viable. People would wish to download and install programs
about which they read reviews or recommended by friends, and they will fail.

Even a Linux friendly software developer will face unsurmountable obstacles in distributing
his software. Windows has great advantage in this regard.

Downloading and installing programs which are outside the prepackaged depository of the
distribution is virtually impossible for non-programmers. That is a hurdle which doesn't exist
on Windows.

Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Posted Jun 12, 2008 4:07 UTC (Thu) by madscientist (subscriber, #16861) [Link]

I know you're trolling, but what you're saying is ridiculous.  Have you ever actually tried
this?  On my Ubuntu box, I use FireFox to browse and I find a link to a .deb package.  I click
on it.  I get a dialog box that shows a description of the package, notifies me that it
requires a few extra packages to be installed (with a "Details" button next to it if I want to
learn more about them), and has a big "Install Package" button next to it.  There are extra
tabs if I want more details on who created the package, etc. or a list of the files contained
in the package.

In the case of my test, the program even recognized that there was a newer version of that
same package already available in the default repositories and asked me if I wanted to use
that instead.

If I select install it will ask for my password, then download all the prerequisites and the
package and install them all, no problem.

That's it for a one-off install.

For companies that want to provide ongoing support you just have to add their repository
(fully doable through the GUI as well) and then you'll get automatic updates for those
packages, just like any official repository package.

The reality is that Windows installs can't come close to the ease and efficiency of Linux
installs.  The only problem with Linux installs is that companies aren't making the packages
available in the first place.

Acer likes Linux for laptops (c|net)

Posted Jun 12, 2008 19:12 UTC (Thu) by mikov (subscriber, #33179) [Link]

No offense, but it is you who seems to be trolling. The GP's comment is pretty insightful. 

First of all, what you are describing is incorrect. You cannot install a package  in this way
if it happens to have dependencies which are not in the standard OS repository. Telling your
user to edit /etc/apt/sources.list ... Yeah, good luck with that.

Secondly, have you ever tried to install the same package on Ubuntu *and* Debian ? Or on two
different versions of Ubuntu ? Or on Fedora ? 

And lastly, have you tried to create a binary package for more than one distribution and
version ? Did you test those packages ? On all distributions ?? :-)

There is another aspect to all this which you are also ignoring - users cannot simply go to a
web site (Open Office, or Mozilla, or whatever) and download and install a newer version of
the software. It will conflict with the one in the distributions repository, there will be
problems with upgrades, etc. So, most users are conditioned to ignore newer versions of
software, until their distro packages them. What is worse, their are forced to upgrade their
entire OS, even if they only needed a newer version of one package.

I could go on an on about this for ever. The reality is, for better or worse, it is immensely
easier to distribute software for Windows, despite of "DLL hell". 

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