Java IS importaqnt for Sun [LWN.net]

Java IS importaqnt for Sun

Posted May 6, 2008 19:06 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Java by ncm
Parent article: A Brief History of Sun by Groklaw's grouch (Groklaw)

If Java is not important for Sun, then why grab symbol? If you don't want to control it then why deny Apache Harmony certification?

No, the situation is vastly different: GJC was becoming usable for Java development, Harmony promised full replacement and Sun felt loss of control. Very different motivation from "we don't need it anymore, let's fee it". Now free developers can have "original" and hopefully will feel no need to support alternatives. Some loss of control (Java can be forked now since it's truly opened), but better then alternative (see XFree86 for example).

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Java important for Sun?

Posted May 7, 2008 1:18 UTC (Wed) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

Strategic value isn't the same as PR value. "Java(TM)" smells of the money spent promoting it.
(Stepanov described Java aptly as a "money-oriented language".)  The name change smacks of
desperation, which is not especially strategic.

Yes, Gcj and Harmony threatened to make Sun even less relevant.  Freeing their own code is an
attack on those projects.  How, exactly, is that supposed to imply a desire to work with the
Free Software, excuse me, the Open Source community?  If they really cared to join, they could
use a license that's compatible with those projects, so code could be freely exchanged with
them.

Free, open, or what-have-you, as far as I'm concerned, it's all dead code.  It has no reason
to exist.

Java important for Sun?

Posted May 7, 2008 5:22 UTC (Wed) by shalem (subscriber, #4062) [Link]

Erm

They did choose a license which is _fully_ compatible with gcj (with classpath that is), they
actually _copied_ the classpath license.

As for harmony not being compatible with the classpath license, thats harmonies fault not
SUN's for all the good the apache foundation does they should have recognised the great value
classpath has and for once not force the use of their own license.

Relax, care for some IcedTea :)

Posted May 7, 2008 9:41 UTC (Wed) by mjw (subscriber, #16740) [Link]

Freeing their own code is an attack on those projects. How, exactly, is that supposed to imply a desire to work with the Free Software, excuse me, the Open Source community? If they really cared to join, they could use a license that's compatible with those projects, so code could be freely exchanged with them.

And that is precisely what they did. The used the GPL (plus the GNU Classpath exception for selected libraries) as used by almost all the libre java efforts out there (except Harmony, but that is another story, you cannot blame them for the mistakes made by the ASF). Look at IcedTea, the mixup of gcj, GNU Classpath and OpenJDK, for a fun collaboration project. This allows all the GNU/Linux distros to ship OpenJDK as completely Free Software. Recently Planet Classpath and PlanetJDK mashed together. Sun hired one of the prominent Kaffe and GNU Classpath hackers, Dalibor Topic, to help them make all this a success. Yes, all this isn't easy on either community, and yes, Sun does think they deserve some control, but all the code is out there, and everybody is respecting the GPL and the fun experiments that come from that. Yes, there are now multiple code bases out there, which you might call a shame, it was a lot of work. We cannot change that fact, but those code bases and communities can and do intermingle.

There is an older LWN article, Piecing together free java , describing some of the ups and downs of the new libre java world (disclaimer I wrote that and I am the GNU Classpath maintainer).

Relax, care for some IcedTea :)

Posted May 7, 2008 21:15 UTC (Wed) by spot (subscriber, #15640) [Link]

Indeed, Sun's handling of Java was a definite improvement, even if it was several years later
than it should have been.

If only they would have handled the opening of the Solaris code in the same fashion... :/