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Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired)Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired)Posted Apr 29, 2008 9:21 UTC (Tue) by bojan (subscriber, #14302)In reply to: Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) by Janne Parent article: Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired)
> If your emplyer wants to employ you, why not? You must be joking. No point responding to the rest.
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Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 29, 2008 10:04 UTC (Tue) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link] I misread the original comment. I read it as "after I'm released from prison", instead "after I'm imprisoned".
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 29, 2008 12:36 UTC (Tue) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link] >> If your emplyer wants to employ you, why not? >You must be joking. No point responding to the rest. You must be trolling, but I'll respond anyway (see how sometime the way a response is worded makes you look less than constructive?). The point of prisons is notionally to provide rehabilitation. In some countries this apparently even works, but I couldn't say. Effectively, prisons in most of the world provide two things: vengeance, and keeping convicted criminals away from the general population, as a safeguard. The latter is provided by the simple act of physical confinement, so the former must be the issue here. If a criminal can contribute to society (ie help others) from in prison, then is it really worth preventing them, on the grounds that they might enjoy it? That would depend upon whether your desire for revenge against one person is greater than your desire for the work they could do to benefit many. Personally, I think that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face, as the saying goes.
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 29, 2008 21:16 UTC (Tue) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link] Not to defend the trollish nature of the poster you are replying to but many people do not consider prison about reform. A number of people consider reform a secondary goal of prison and punishment as the first goal.
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 30, 2008 7:00 UTC (Wed) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link] What is the goal of prison: a) punish the criminal b) reduce the amount of crime If you select A, you will most likely end up with a system where the criminal spends some time in prison, gets released, commits another crime, gets sent to prison etc. etc. In option B, the criminal is sent to prison. But instead of focusing on "punishing" the criminal (well he is punished as well, since physical confinement that is prison is a punishment), they also try to make sure that he can re-integrate back in to the society. That way he wont commit any more crimes after he has been released. If prison focuses on "punishment", the man that is released after his time is up, is a broken and bitter person, with no real hope for the future. And that is exactly the kind of person who will commit more crimes. Do those extra crimes help society? No they do not. What does help the society? Productive members of the society.
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 30, 2008 23:52 UTC (Wed) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link] I discussing my personal feelings on the matter the point of prison is to remove the individual from society. Not for the sake of the prisoner, but for the sake of society. Rehabilitation or punishment are secondary to removing the person committing illegal acts from society. Of course it's hoped that in allowing the person back out that they will have learned a lesson but I highly doubt you could prove that very many (if any at all) rehabilitation programs have lower recidivism rates than the general prison population. Every scientific, rather than anecdotal, study I have seen shows there is no correlation between recidivism and "rehabilitation" programs and that return rate is the same in almost every study. Someone else pointed to USA recidivism rates and tried to infer the Europe is better in this regard than the US because of softer sentencing, this is while neglecting that the numbers are almost identical in both jurisdictions. First time offenders are about 60% likely to re-offend, of re-offenders 90% will re-offend again after the 2nd prison term. This has led to the idea of the three strikes system in some states because it keeps the people that will re-offend in prison rather than releasing them to commit more crime.
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 29, 2008 21:48 UTC (Tue) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link] > You must be trolling Get over yourself, please. A woman is dead and two children have been left without parents. A man has been convicted of her murder and all you can think about is what _he_ should get?
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 30, 2008 8:44 UTC (Wed) by thumperward (subscriber, #34368) [Link] and all you can think about is what _he_ should get?This too is a straw man. There are obviously other considerations here. However, it is a valid point to bring up. If you don't believe that murder sentences should be universally punished with execution or solitary confinement, the question is what said murderers should be doing with themselves behind bars. Hans Reiser could make a minor contribution to society manufacturing license plates, or could make a larger one by working on a file system. It is evident that criminals are already allowed access to writing materials, books, multimedia and physical education, so the question is whether or not restricted access to computing facilities should be allowed as well. - Chris
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 30, 2008 9:37 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link] I find it awfully distasteful that many here are worried whether he'll be able do this or that, especially given that they may have personal interest in it. The man has just been found guilty of murder and the first priority is preserving his coding privileges? I think not. Murderers should be given an opportunity to think long and hard about the consequence of actions they have chosen to take. This does not include (effectively) extending their employment inside prison walls on day one of their imprisonment.
Hans Reiser Guilty of First Degree Murder (Wired) Posted Apr 30, 2008 11:24 UTC (Wed) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link] "Murderers should be given an opportunity to think long and hard about the consequence of actions they have chosen to take. This does not include (effectively) extending their employment inside prison walls on day one of their imprisonment." What if we are talking about a hobby here? Of course Reisers ambitions about coding for profit wont fly while he's doing time. But what if he wants to code as a hobby? Last time I checked, inmates are allowed to do things that could be considered hobbies. Things like sports, writing, reading, playing an instrument etc. Why would coding be different? Of course coding Reiser4 might be difficult since his net-access would be limited in the extreme. But still.
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