They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! [LWN.net]

They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!

Posted Apr 4, 2008 16:59 UTC (Fri) by oblio (guest, #33465)
In reply to: They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! by grouch
Parent article: Sun Microsystems' Next Linux Move (Seeking Alpha)

"Remove all of those and you can still have an operating system -- you can still interact with
your computer. Remove either the GNU software or Linux and you don't have an operating system,
in the typically-named "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" distribution. The kernel by itself is not an
operating system. The shell, coreutils and essential libraries standing alone are not an
operating system."

___

And there are BSD licensed version for all of those, except GCC, GDB and a few others. 

My point is that you could probably run the Linux kernel with a BSD userland, and with
software on top of that from outside the GNU ecosystem, and still have a full system.

GCC is GNU's powerbroker :)

(Log in to post comments)

They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!

Posted Apr 4, 2008 17:00 UTC (Fri) by oblio (guest, #33465) [Link]

Substitute "versions" with equivalent "applications/tools" :)

They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!

Posted Apr 4, 2008 18:57 UTC (Fri) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

Currently, there isn't a BSD C library that works with the Linux kernel. There is uClibc, designed for embedded use (LGPL), as well as Cygnus newlib, also for embedded use (non-copylefted, BSD-like terms).

But generally if you're on a desktop, laptop, or server, you rely on GNU libc.

They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!

Posted Apr 4, 2008 20:08 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Except, perhaps, when booting (some people use klibc in their 
initramfs/initrd; some use uClibc; nobody without disk space to throw away 
uses glibc).

They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!

Posted Apr 5, 2008 3:27 UTC (Sat) by grouch (subscriber, #27289) [Link]

My point is that you could probably run the Linux kernel with a BSD userland, and with software on top of that from outside the GNU ecosystem, and still have a full system.

So, if I understand you correctly, your point is that there are probably other operating systems besides GNU/Linux. I can probably agree with that. ;)

I still prefer GNU/Linux, however, and have had no need for any other operating system for quite a few years. Any replacement would have to have at least as strong an emphasis on user freedoms. I've grown accustomed to being in control of my computer and data.

You are right - in a sense this IS the reason to use GNU/Linux

Posted Apr 5, 2008 14:44 UTC (Sat) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

And there are BSD licensed version for all of those, except GCC, GDB and a few others.

Yup. That's exactly why it's better to use GNU/Linux name! For example Android is Linux-based system but not GNU/Linux system. And since the GNU glue is gone it feels quite different then "normal" Linux (really GNU/Linux) system. The same it true for OpenWrt and other systems without GNU userland.

Once upon time the story way simple: we can omit GNU in GNU/Linux since it's there by default. It was even justifiable back then. But today people are talking about "triumph of the GNU on mobile phones" when they talk about Android exactly because they don't distinguish GNU and GNU/Linux. Today we have all four combinations in real use: nonGNU/nonLinux (like Windows), nonGNU/Linux (like Android), GNU/Linux (most Linuxes out there) and even GNU/nonLinux (like Debian GNU/kFreeBSD or Gentoo/FreeBSD). In many ways Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is closer to Debian GNU/Linux then to Android so GNU/Linux name makes perfect sense. And yes, the main reason to use GNU/Linux are two facts:
1. GNU and Linux make usable OS, anything less is not usable.
2. Either GNU or Linux can be replaced with something else.