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They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun!Posted Apr 4, 2008 11:41 UTC (Fri) by oblio (guest, #33465)In reply to: They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! by michaeljt Parent article: Sun Microsystems' Next Linux Move (Seeking Alpha)
"The policy of calling the whole system "GNU" does beg the question - what proportion of the average free software-based system is actually GNU software? And of that software, how much of it can be considered part of the core of the system and how much as tools? Does the compiler suite count as a development tool or as part of the system core? Does the fact that it is required to build the system affect the equation? Does Gnome consider itself to be primarily part of GNU (is Solaris GNU?), or an independent project? Which proportion of free software systems (desktops or otherwise) use Gnome? And while we are at it, what proportion of such a system is actually Linux? (As a side note, I like to talk about the systems as being "Debian", "Ubuntu", "Gentoo" or whatever in order to sidestep the issue. That at least seems to me to be an uncontroversial description of them.)" ___ Furthermore, a lot of the most used F/OSS software is not GNU. MySQL is not GNU, PHP is not GNU, Apache is not GNU, Sendmail, Qmail, Postfix, Tomcat, KDE, OpenOffice, Inkscape, BIND, ZSH, PostgreSQL, SQLite,... are not GNU. GNU is a sort of glue these days, being the toolkit with which these applications are built. And except for GCC and GDB, everything is replaceable. Look at FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, for example. It is an important part, and probably the most politically aware, but it is *not* the end-all-be-all some GNU supporters are portraying. A lot of people outside GNU are helping F/OSS too.
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They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! Posted Apr 4, 2008 12:44 UTC (Fri) by grouch (subscriber, #27289) [Link]
Remove all of those and you can still have an operating system -- you can still interact with your computer. Remove either the GNU software or Linux and you don't have an operating system, in the typically-named "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" distribution. The kernel by itself is not an operating system. The shell, coreutils and essential libraries standing alone are not an operating system. I run Debian GNU/Linux. I can strip out everything except GNU code and Linux code and still operate my computer. Everything I add to those increases the convenience and utility of my computer, but removing either of those leaves me with a powered paperweight. If my operating system did not already have a name, either "GNU/Linux" or "GNU+Linux" would be a logical choice as the two parts are essential to gain the characteristics of the operating system I prefer.
They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! Posted Apr 4, 2008 16:59 UTC (Fri) by oblio (guest, #33465) [Link] "Remove all of those and you can still have an operating system -- you can still interact with your computer. Remove either the GNU software or Linux and you don't have an operating system, in the typically-named "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" distribution. The kernel by itself is not an operating system. The shell, coreutils and essential libraries standing alone are not an operating system." ___ And there are BSD licensed version for all of those, except GCC, GDB and a few others. My point is that you could probably run the Linux kernel with a BSD userland, and with software on top of that from outside the GNU ecosystem, and still have a full system. GCC is GNU's powerbroker :)
They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! Posted Apr 4, 2008 17:00 UTC (Fri) by oblio (guest, #33465) [Link] Substitute "versions" with equivalent "applications/tools" :)
They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! Posted Apr 4, 2008 18:57 UTC (Fri) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] Currently, there isn't a BSD C library that works with the Linux kernel. There is uClibc, designed for embedded use (LGPL), as well as Cygnus newlib, also for embedded use (non-copylefted, BSD-like terms).But generally if you're on a desktop, laptop, or server, you rely on GNU libc.
They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! Posted Apr 4, 2008 20:08 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] Except, perhaps, when booting (some people use klibc in their initramfs/initrd; some use uClibc; nobody without disk space to throw away uses glibc).
They call it GNU/Linux - thanks Sun! Posted Apr 5, 2008 3:27 UTC (Sat) by grouch (subscriber, #27289) [Link]
So, if I understand you correctly, your point is that there are probably other operating systems besides GNU/Linux. I can probably agree with that. ;) I still prefer GNU/Linux, however, and have had no need for any other operating system for quite a few years. Any replacement would have to have at least as strong an emphasis on user freedoms. I've grown accustomed to being in control of my computer and data.
You are right - in a sense this IS the reason to use GNU/Linux Posted Apr 5, 2008 14:44 UTC (Sat) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] And there are BSD licensed version for all of those, except GCC, GDB and a few others. Yup. That's exactly why it's better to use GNU/Linux name! For example Android is Linux-based system but not GNU/Linux system. And since the GNU glue is gone it feels quite different then "normal" Linux (really GNU/Linux) system. The same it true for OpenWrt and other systems without GNU userland. Once upon time the story way simple: we can omit GNU in GNU/Linux since it's there by default. It was even justifiable back then. But today people are talking about "triumph of the GNU on mobile phones" when they talk about Android exactly because they don't distinguish GNU and GNU/Linux. Today we have all four combinations in real use: nonGNU/nonLinux (like Windows), nonGNU/Linux (like Android), GNU/Linux (most Linuxes out there) and even GNU/nonLinux (like Debian GNU/kFreeBSD or Gentoo/FreeBSD). In many ways Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is closer to Debian GNU/Linux then to Android so GNU/Linux name makes perfect sense. And yes, the main reason to use GNU/Linux are two facts:
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