Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
But in case flash prices continue to plummet and the flash drives really do catch on, Watkins has something else up his sleeve.... Seagate and Western Digital (WDC), two of the major hard drive makers, have patents that deal with many of the ways a storage device communicates with a computer, Watkins says. It stands to reason that sooner or later, Seagate will sue - particularly if it looks like SSDs could become a real threat."
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Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
I started reading the blurb like:
> But in case flash prices continue to plummet and the flash drives really do catch on,
> Watkins has something else up his sleeve....
"oh, well seagate will start making inexpensive BIG flash drives..."
oh, well...
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Gee, and I used to buy a lot of Seagate drives, too. Guess those days are over.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
What are you going to buy instead of them?
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
> What are you going to buy instead of them?
fujitsu, maxtor, western digital...
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
> fujitsu, maxtor, western digital...
"Seagate and /Western Digital (WDC)/, two of the major hard drive makers, have patents that
deal with many of the ways a storage device communicates with a computer, Watkins says."
And I've seen too much of dead Maxtors (they really deserve a dedicated cemetery to hold them
all), which would only leave Fujitsu? There's also Hitachi and Samsung out there.
I've been asking the original question just because I have much more trust in Seagates than in
anything else. Patent trolling is one thing, trusting data is still another one.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Maxtor was bought by Seagate :O
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
What if I say "Samsung" ?
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
> patents that deal with many of the ways a storage device communicates with a computer
All of which boil down to electrical (or, possibly, optical) signals over a serial or parallel
bus, right? Makes about as much sense as patents on file formats I suppose, sigh.
Still, there are a _lot_ of existing ways a storage device can communicate with a computer --
SCSI, USB, PATA, SATA, FireWire/1394, etc. I don't imagine that any patents covering the SCSI
or ATA command set itself are still in force, and many of Seagate's patents may already fall
under various cross-licensing agreements.
Of course, there are some inherent differences between flash and disk, so sooner or later
we'll see interfaces optimized for the former, and disks will have to start emulating flash
rather than vice-versa. (Think of the various SCSI commands that make no sense if you don't
have rotating platters, moving heads, and the latency thereof.)
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
What I wonder is "why not PCI" (or similar)? Flash has the potential to go very, very much
faster than hard drives, particularly if you put down a parallel array of flash.
Put some battery backed RAM a board with a controller and an array of parallel flash devices,
and you have a very, very fast "disk." The battery backed RAM is there mainly to absorb
bursts of activity as well as sector translation maps for wear leveling.
It should be possible to get very fast speeds out of such a critter. Maybe not as fast as a
RAM disk--that'd require fitting in a RAM socket and responding at RAM speeds and
latencies--but fast enough.
The only annoying thing is that BIOSes won't see it as a disk since it wouldn't necessarily
offer a disk interface. I guess you *would* have to emulate some sort of legacy disk
controller interface for that, much like modern GPUs still support all the old VGA modes.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
I think it would make a lot of sense for flash drive manufacturers to start working with
Microsoft on a new Windows filesystem similar to JFFS2 and enable access to the raw flash in
the drives through some extension to the ATA and SCSI standards. Linux of course already has
filesystems that handle raw flash.
Surely it would be more efficient to do it that way.
Sure, it would be more efficient. It would also fly about as well as a lead balloon in the market. The reason they're making ATA-attached flash drives is exactly because you can immediately sell those to the vast majority of the market that already supports hard drives. The other tolerably widespread interfaces have drawbacks in cost, performance, or ubiquity, or a combination of those.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Well, in my idea the new commands would not replace the older SATA commands but be in addition
to.
In that way, you could use the direct flash interface by installing a Windows driver during
installation before using the drive, just like you used to have to do for SATA, SCSI or RAID
with Windows XP.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
They are working on a new flash file system ... but you're probably not going to like it too
much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Luckily in the future flash based storage will resemble RAM more than traditional storage, as
far as the interface goes, so bye bye Seagate patents.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Guess they all are evil after all!
If Seagate wants to use its patents, it would do so to extract money from the flash drive makers, not to attempt to shut them down. Should they try the latter, then the flash drive makers would just invent new protocols that work around the patents. Instead, they'll ask for just enough money so that it will be cheaper to pay than to fight. That's how the game is played.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
> have patents that deal with many of the ways a storage device communicates
> with a computer
One of the problems with flash drives is that making them communicate over the protocols used
by hard drives (i.e. IDE, SCSI etc) is a bit of a "square peg, round hole" problem. Flash
could work better with something a bit different; at the very least, block sizes would be
different and there would be an explicit erase command. If these patents make it
difficult/expensive for flash drive manufacturers to continue to use the old protocols, then
that might encourage them to do something new - which would be a good thing.
Flash vs. hard drive battle heats up (Fortune)
Wholly agreed.
That said, it would be interesting, very interesting I think if Seagate would pursue patent
litigation in such a way as to inhibit the development
of an emerging technology, clearly illustrating how patent law has been
completely turned on it's head.
Watkins has "proposal" for competition, denies cement storage
Seagate CEO Bill Watkins announced that Seagate is not going to try and keep up with the
expected increased competition from Flash-based storage vendors.
When asked about continuing to service Seagate's customers in their storage needs, Watkins
noted that "if it isn't hard drives, we don't care what the customer wants". As he gestured
two men in black to approach this reporter, he added with a raised eyebrow: "You do want hard
drives, don't you?"
To the question of whether he was worried some people might not see things his way, he
responded mysteriously that he had "a proposal" for the "mutual benefit" of Seagate and rising
SSD manufacturers. Then Watkins put on his trench coat and started to leave to "take care of
some business". Finally, when pushed on the rumors that Seagate might after all be up to
something aside hard drives, he merely remarked: "Perhaps I will show it to you later".
Let us hope so. For now, our readers will have to remain wondering if the rumors of the
upcoming Seagate cement storage systems are true. All this reporter knows is that another
cement truck is backing up to Seagate HQ right as Watkins is taking his leave.
Watkins has "proposal" for competition, denies cement storage
Bravo!
(until the third paragraph I thought it might be a quote from some news
source, and was getting all steamed up about the `we don't care what the
customer wants' line. Nicely done!)