Other stuff from the board meeting... [LWN.net]

Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 1:41 UTC (Tue) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
Parent article: Fedora 9 to remove pointers to proprietary codecs

Somewhat more interesting is the stuff about the Google relationship. It looks like Fedora
were interested in getting paid for all the people they (by setting the default in the Firefox
browser included in Fedora) send to Google's search engine. But that deal didn't work out, so
then it's a question of whether to change the default.

This will require very careful handling, it will be interesting to see whether (if anything
does come out of such discussions) the Fedora board know how to present what they're doing
without annoying too many people.

There's also a weird mention of GPL 3b, which I thought everyone had long ago given up trying
to use. In this case it seems the concern is a Fedora Ambassador, alone at some event, with a
pile of (non-source) Fedora DVDs to give away - he's currently not in compliance. Only takes
one smart-ass to say "And I get source code too, right?" and they've got an embarrassing
situation. Seems they asked if legally they could make this into a 3b scenario, and were told
it's not possible. The fix isn't mentioned, but I guess the options are to send Ambassadors a
handful of source DVDs to give to smart-asses or a heap of leaflet format GPL 3b offers to
hand out with each Fedora binary DVD (ugh).

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Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 3:00 UTC (Tue) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

Fedora could fix this by just including on the DVD the required written offer for how to get the source. It could give two options:

Option 1: download the source from a server.

Option 2: instructions for mail-ordering a source CD or DVD. For example, it could require that the orderer include a self-addressed mailer with proper postage, together with money to cover the expense of the blank medium and a small amount for the person's time spent burning the disk and getting it in the mail.

Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 4:27 UTC (Tue) by mdomsch (subscriber, #5920) [Link]

JoeBuck: GPLv2 doesn't allow you to satisfy 3b) by placing the code on a server if you've put
binaries on physical media, or so the FSF individuals we've spoken with claim. (GPLv3 does
address this point).

The bigger problem, which even GPLv3 doesn't address, is that each "distribution" - someone
handing out a CD to someone else, if done on behalf of the Fedora Project (we can get into
legal discussions of if someone is an "Agent" of the Fedora Project or not, or if that matters
here) resets the 3b) 3-year clock. We don't know when the last time such are handed out, so
we don't know when we can end the offer. We were hoping we could say "Fedora will hand out
these DVDs only for 14 months, so 4 years 2 months from now we aren't required to still hand
out DVDs with source", but our legal guidance says we can't do that. So our 3b)
responsibilities would continue effectively indefinitely. Ensuring that 4+ years down the
line someone will exist to burn 4+ year old SRPMS on request without error isn't something we
are comfortable guaranteeing.

The advice to our Ambassadors is to encourage individuals interested in getting the source to
get it from one of the download servers. If they insist on getting it on media, then the
Ambassadors should have a DVD burner and blank media on hand. If a lot of people ask for
source in this fashion, we would have to consider pressing media with SRPMS to send to shows,
which gets quite expensive, and in general is a waste of money.

-Matt Domsch, on behalf of the Fedora Project Board

Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 5:32 UTC (Tue) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

You misunderstood what I wrote. I suggested including two options: one to tell people how to download the software, the other to send a stamped, self-addressed envelope and get the source. This satisfies the legal requirement. The option to do the download is intended to reduce the burden, since most people would use the least-hassle method.

Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 11:46 UTC (Tue) by mdomsch (subscriber, #5920) [Link]

I understand, the "send a SASE" reduces the need to have a stack of pressed media to mail.  It
does not reduce the indeterminate end-time of the 3b) clock, meaning we would have to ensure
that if someone does send a SASE several years from now (again, could be 4+ years, we don't
know and can't set an "end date" on the offer), that someone would exist to receive that SASE,
burn the media, and mail it back, without failure to do so or error on their part.  We prefer
to be done with our legal obligation at the time of distribution, rather than carry the
additional obligation for an indefinite time into the future.

Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 12:39 UTC (Tue) by emk (subscriber, #1128) [Link]

With a little bit of pre-planning, couldn't you make this process fairly fool-proof?
Specifically:

1) Decide to only distribute binary CDs/DVDs of actual Fedora and Enterprise releases, not
(say) alpha and beta builds.

2) Generate *.iso files for the corresponding source CDs/DVDs up front.

3) Store the *.iso files on high-reliability storage (a properly backed-up RAID server or
something).

When somebody asks for source code, just grab and burn the appropriate *.iso.

Realistically, this would cost a week of engineering time to set up, and a few hundred dollars
a year in RAID drives and server administration. GPL 3b is pretty obnoxious in this
day-and-age, but it's not that huge a hassle for anybody with good long-term data storage.

Other stuff from the board meeting...

Posted Mar 18, 2008 14:43 UTC (Tue) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]

Thanks for the further explanation, it was enlightening.