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The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 3, 2008 20:54 UTC (Mon) by jimwelch (guest, #178)
Parent article: The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

I have a hard time understanding a freedom loving software group honoring China by having a
conference there. Is China not the most restrictive country for journalists, much less its
citizens?


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The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 3, 2008 21:16 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (subscriber, #10767) [Link]

All the more reason to sound the voice of software freedom there.  You see, China is not the
Chinese government.  China is the Chinese people.

This is why I do not buy into all the well intentioned, but misguided, efforts by people to
avoid buying goods made in China, etc.  China's rulers will not be deprived of any meals
through boycotts or economic sanctions.  Only the Chinese people are hurt.  Perhaps the idea
of making the economy so bad that the people will rise up against their government might have
some merit.  But I can't help but feel that the ethics of applying such pressure are
questionable.

On the same note, I do not believe in shunning them when it comes time to pick a location for
an important conference involving the concept of software freedom.

And remember, the billion people of China potentially have a lot to give back to FOSS.  But
first, they must understand that it is in their best interest to respect the licenses and
contribute their changes back upstream, and must understand how that is best done, and all the
other little details about how and why to become integral members of the our world wide
community.

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 5, 2008 12:19 UTC (Wed) by alankila (subscriber, #47141) [Link]

> But I can't help but feel that the ethics of applying such pressure
> are questionable.

Not only questionable but also ineffective. Generally (dictatorial) ruling is in part enforced
by lack of options for those who are being ruled. For instance, people might want to leave the
country but they have no money to do so. They might want to work elsewhere, but they have no
marketable skills because they could not afford education. In this light, any further economic
hardship just further reduces people into poverty and the grasp of their government.

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 4, 2008 11:48 UTC (Tue) by danielhedblom (guest, #47307) [Link]

I think we westerners are feed a fair amount of propaganda about China. Its not the most open
country in the world but then again, in Guantanamo there are hundreds of political prisoners
held without trials and without any official charges. 

Democracy is not a process that can or should be forced. Its an evolution that needs time to
settle and develop. An unstable democracy is much worse than any one-party system.

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 4, 2008 15:36 UTC (Tue) by Yorick (subscriber, #19241) [Link]

>I think we westerners are feed a fair amount of propaganda about China. Its not the most open
country in the world but then again, in Guantanamo there are hundreds of political prisoners
held without trials and without any official charges. 

And we thought that whataboutism died with the Cold War.


The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 4, 2008 18:22 UTC (Tue) by flewellyn (subscriber, #5047) [Link]

It's a fair point, though; the US is not exactly in a position to criticize other countries on
their human rights records, at the moment.  Our moral high ground, never that solid to begin
with, has turned into quicksand.

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 4, 2008 18:46 UTC (Tue) by Yorick (subscriber, #19241) [Link]

>It's a fair point, though; the US is not exactly in a position to criticize other countries
on their human rights records, at the moment.  Our moral high ground, never that solid to
begin with, has turned into quicksand.

In what way would USA's follies prevent us, or Americans for that matter, from criticising
China in any way? Countering a criticism with a reciprocal criticism of something else is the
very essence of whataboutism. The point is that a wrong is never excused by another no matter
on whose side.

That said, OOo is clearly in their right to hold their conference wherever they like and they
have good reasons for their choice. The Chinese need all encouragement they can get to
contribute to free software.

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 4, 2008 22:12 UTC (Tue) by szh (guest, #23558) [Link]

> In what way would USA's follies prevent us, or Americans for that matter, from criticising
China in any way?

Lets get back to the 1st post in this thread.

Somebody who is against "honoring China by having a conference there." MUST also be against
"honoring bloody aggressor USA by having any FLOSS conference there." 

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 4, 2008 17:31 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

China is actually better than North Korea, according to Reporters Without Borders (163 vs 168). USA ranks 53th (along with Botswana, Croatia and Tonga). Extraterritorial USA (I believe this includes Guantanamo) ranks 119th; below Cambodia, Sierra Leone or Indonesia. Where do you set the limit?

The OpenOffice.org Annual Conference goes to Beijing

Posted Mar 5, 2008 8:47 UTC (Wed) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link]

"I have a hard time understanding a freedom loving software group honoring China by having a
conference there. Is China not the most restrictive country for journalists, much less its
citizens?"

To answer your question: No. You are simply repeating the propaganda you have been fed since
birth. No wonder you have a hard time understanding. If we want to propagate ideas about
freedom, this is exactly the right thing to do: go out there, meet people, let them see that
what we stand for is friendly and peaceful, that we have something good we want to share. You
can't force people to be free - it has been tried in Iraq (as well as in Afghanistan, Vietnam,
Korea, ...), and we ought to have learned by now.

This is not to say that there is nothing to criticise, but show me a country where everything
is perfect; where everybody enjoys perfect freedom, where there is no inequality, no social
injustice, etc etc. And try to turn it around: America has been criticised strongly - and with
good reason - for its transgressions, but the only effect this has on most Americans is that
they get defensive; it certainly hasn't made the American government change its ways, as far
as I can see. So why would anybody expect it to be different for other countries? If we always
criticise China, we only achieve to alienate the Chinese.

Apart from that, before we even think about criticising, we should at least make sure that we
get the facts right, so we don't make ourselves look like idiots. "Democracy" and "freedom"
means different things to different people, and if you ask people, you will find that it
rarely has anything to do with lofty principles; people just want to be free from worry.

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