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Posted Feb 28, 2008 0:27 UTC (Thu) by zooko (subscriber, #2589)
Oh by, Graydon Hoare -- author of monotone -- posted, at the time, his summary of his
discussion with Linus and reasons why he thinks Linus rejected monotone:
I greatly appreciate the way Graydon is precise and to the point while also being soft-spoken
and charitable towards others. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I find myself
noticeably happier at the prospect of reading something Graydon has written than something
Linus has written.
A related story to "Linus rejects monotone" is "Linus rejects Mercurial". There is an
interesting thread on lkml about that. Here is a climactic point where Linus seems to be
wavering about adopting Mercurial instead of git:
I couldn't find the next inflection point -- where Linus decided to keep git.
I think maybe the last word on the subject belongs to the long-lost ntk.net:
"Given the surfeit of next generation systems - including darcs, codeville, arch, monotone,
bazaar, bazaar-ng, vesta, svk, ArX, aegis, we suspect that the winner will be git, just out of
the Mighty Power Of Fanboyism."
Posted Feb 28, 2008 1:00 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333)
Well speed was a very very high priority for Linus with Git. His opinion is that it puts a
different dynamic on a feature if it's slow vs fast. That is people will take much more
advantage of features and use them in creative ways if they are fast, and if they are very
slow it makes them very much less useful in real world situations.
Seems like he felt that people were caring about features and code structure (ie being a bit
to academic) rather then concentrating on making quick and essential functionality.
I donno. Stuff your guys are talking about are probably much improved but git exists now and
it's gotten popular so I doubt there is a reason to switch now.
I don't know how this compares to other things like Monotone, BK, or any other 'third
generation' version control system else like that, but it is also important for him that each
developer can have his own private tree local for his own work. That there is no enforced
hierarchy, no secondary players in git-land. No centralized anything. Everything is
distrubted. Each personal repository is on equal footing with everybody else's and all you
essentially have is a multitude of separate git trees that can share code equally.
There is a lovely talk here:
Also keep in mind that jives and insults matter different in different contexts. Friends often
are very insulting to each other were I am from, it's actually quite friendly because they
know that they can behave like that and trust each other not to take it personally. That is as
long as it stays 'good nature'. Reassuringly friendly sometimes. (this does not mix well with
alcohol, though. Not at all)
I notice that often people don't understand that and they come from a place were politeness
and careful attention to social sensitivities is very important. This is fine, it's just
different. Depending on context this can be also mis-interpreted and lack of trust/empathy and
taken sort of indicator of a person with a self-superior attitude.
It's not really that important, but it's something to keep in mind I guess. Of course Linus
can be abrasive and he is proud of it, so lots of his BS just should be ignored completely.
Posted Feb 29, 2008 0:05 UTC (Fri) by graydon (subscriber, #5009)
You're wrong, but it doesn't matter. The only thing that really matters -- to anyone outside
those few of us mildly offended by being misrepresented -- is that the idea, and some
implementation of it, is now spreading like wildfire.
The fact that git didn't invent the idea is one of those easily-overlooked juicy details lost
in history. It has technical and political momentum to dominate, so ... run with it.
Posted Feb 29, 2008 12:21 UTC (Fri) by daniel (subscriber, #3181)
Nice to see you here, and nice to see you getting credit for the considerable advances you
brought about in the state of this art.
I wonder if anybody will ever chronicle my part in the story?
Posted Feb 29, 2008 12:46 UTC (Fri) by zooko (subscriber, #2589)
Do tell. I don't know your part of the story. Nor your last name.
Posted Feb 29, 2008 17:14 UTC (Fri) by graydon (subscriber, #5009)
Nice to see you again too! But I must admit to not knowing all the twists and turns of your
part of the story to chronicle them correctly. I know some bits but I'd probably blurt them
I didn't mean to imply that I invented the interesting ideas in monotone. Merely that it, as a
social and researchy development project, both discovered a few fresh ideas and consolidated /
refined many others, and has subsequently been a ripe source of ideas for its successors. I
did some of the work, but also made a ton of mistakes; the key theoretical work we stumbled
through during the course of monotone development was mostly the doing of others. Jerome
Fisher, Nathaniel Smith, Derek Scherger, Bram and Ross Cohen, Timothy Brownawell, Christof
Petig, Richard Levitte, Zack Weinberg, Peter Simons, Daniel Phillips, Emile Snyder, Markus
Schiltknecht, Paul Crowley ... and a long list of others who I am probably implicitly
insulting by not mentioning here (sorry, limited comment space).
We really lucked out, for whatever reason, in drawing together a group of exceptional people
to mull over the problem and push around potential solutions in code, without anyone getting
too pissy about "being right". It's been a really enjoyable and open community.
Posted Feb 28, 2008 1:43 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165)
I was referring to
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