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A Beijing trip report

By Jonathan Corbet
February 27, 2008
China would seem like an ideal environment for free software. The Chinese have a need for vast amounts of software as their country rapidly industrializes, they have reasons to prefer software which is not controlled by American corporations, and they have been coming under some pressure from those same corporations to do something about their little habit of copying proprietary software without much regard for details like license agreements. Free software offers them the ability to take control of their own software, make sure it lacks unwelcome surprises, and copy it as much as they like. And China has been making a lot of use of Linux and free software, but, as is the case with many Asian countries, China's presence in the development community is relatively small.

Encouraging participation from Asian countries has been a goal of the Linux Foundation for some time; one result of that is the series of symposiums held in Japan over the last few years. Now, for the first time, the Foundation has extended this series to China. On February 19 and 20, the first Linux Developer Symposium China was held in Beijing. This event was organized in cooperation with the China Open Source Promotion Union (COPU). Your editor had the privilege of speaking at this meeting.

This was not the kind of developer-oriented gathering that one might expect to find in many other parts of the world. Far too many suits and ties, for example. Often the focus of the event appeared to be the creation of photo opportunities while people (who were not developers) gave speeches. In general, it was organized in a mode of talking to the participants, rather than talking with them. The agenda makes this clear: 17 speakers on the first day, with only one break (for lunch). The talks were well received by a sellout crowd, but there was not a lot of opportunity for people to talk.

The second day featured a round table discussion and a set of BOF sessions. The round table was interesting, though it focused on issues which are not necessarily development oriented: Linux adoption in mobile devices, competing with pirated copies of Windows, etc. The BOF was, in many ways, the most interesting part of the whole event; this was where participants could find people with similar interests and simply ask questions. Your editor fielded questions on security modules, the kevent interface, community participation in Asia, language issues, and more. Chinese developers, like their Japanese counterparts, seem to be reluctant to ask questions in front of a large group. But, in a closer situation, the floodgates open and all kinds of questions come out.

Unfortunately, the second day was open only to a small subset of the conference attendees, and that subset was heavy on the managerial side. So a lot of people who could have benefited most from the BOF session were not there.

One topic which never came up - until your editor raised it briefly at the round table session - was license compliance. For the most part, it does not seem to be on the radar there. Your editor was told that GPL violations are common with products which are sold in the Chinese market but not exported elsewhere; the people involved can assume, with seemingly good reason, that nobody will take them to court. There is also a fair amount of driver work being done for companies in other countries; once the code is shipped the original developers forget about it and move on to the next project. Quite a bit of that code never makes it into the mainline.

This sort of activity fails to give back to the community which provided Linux in the first place. But it also hurts the developers involved. They do not become part of the community, do not get recognition for their work, and miss the opportunity to learn from others. During the press conference on the first day, it was noted that Chinese companies are having a hard time hiring Linux developers, and that more training opportunities would be a good thing. Your editor felt the need to point out that, of all the people working in free software projects, very few of them are specifically trained to do so. It's more a matter of individual initiative. Training is good, but the training received in Chinese universities should be more than adequate for those looking to get involved with free software.

Andrew Morton took that theme further by pointing out that, rather than complaining about difficulties in hiring, these companies would be better off encouraging community participation and skills development within their existing staff. That would be more productive than chasing the same small set of developers that everybody else is trying to hire. On the second day, Dave Neary made the crucial point that community participation is something that individuals - not companies - do. There are a lot of companies worldwide which have a hard time understanding how free software development works, and China is no exception.

One last note on hiring free software hackers. Your editor ran across this article, which states:

In China, 43 per cent of IT graduates are unemployed, and hacker "training" web sites are creating a pool of effective malware authors and paying them like a legitimate business.

In such a situation (assuming the claim is true - something your editor cannot vouch for), finding developers who are able and willing to learn how to hack on free software should not be that hard.

Meanwhile, your editor was struck by the energy and initiative shown by the Beijing Linux Users Group, which helped with many aspects of the event. BLUG is busily organizing gatherings and creating a local community out of Beijing's hackers. A real spark is glowing there; it will be interesting to see how that group develops in the near future.

[Tourists on the great wall] All told, the event was a clear success. It was a proper media event which raised the profile of Linux in China and showed that Linux developers care enough about the country to pay a visit. A mixture of local and imported developers were able to present their work to an attentive and interested audience. The discussions brought developers closer and, hopefully, sent them away with interesting things on their "to do" lists. And, importantly, the visiting developers learned something about China that goes beyond the proper technique for eating Peking Duck or the effort required to climb the Great Wall (or to circumvent the rather obnoxious great firewall). With luck, we have a better understanding of what developers are up to in that part of the world and how we can help them to participate fully in our projects. And that can only be a good thing.

(Some pictures from the event have been posted. Unbelievable numbers of photos were taken, so more can be expected to surface at some point. But, under no circumstances should anyone look at the scurrilous photo posted by Andrew Morton.)


(Log in to post comments)

That wall

Posted Feb 28, 2008 3:49 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

As an aside, the image at the bottom shows our friends in front of a wall, conventionally
identified as a fragment of "The Great Wall".  Amusingly enough, "The Great Wall" itself does
not exist.  China certainly has an abundance of walls, some running over many miles, but no
single project was ever conceived as "The Great Wall" until long after all such wall
construction ceased.  Each wall was an investment against the need to pay tribute to the
nearest raider tribe.  If "The Great Wall" is to be identified as a singular construction, the
product is not of masonry, but of public perception, attributing to Chinese culture an
illusory continuity of effort not actually attempted.  When Nixon famously insisted "This is
truly a great wall", we may recognize it as one more falsehood.

You may now return to your hacking.

That wall

Posted Feb 28, 2008 3:54 UTC (Thu) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

Actually, there was a relatively late emperor who made a point of pulling all of the segments together into a single wall. The tour guide told us about it, so it must be true. It was definitely an "integrate the pieces" affair rather than a "design from the beginning" situation, though.

That wall

Posted Feb 28, 2008 8:28 UTC (Thu) by alex (subscriber, #1355) [Link]

It was definitely an "integrate the pieces" affair rather than a "design from the beginning" situation, though.

There is an analogy for FLOSS somewhere in there.

That wall

Posted Feb 28, 2008 9:27 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

Of course "all" is a slippery term in the mouth of a tour guide. What does it mean to integrate two walls -- segments, if you like -- that run more or less parallel, a hundred miles apart?

People who don't believe Neil A. walked on the moon nonetheless happily believe The Great Wall is visible from there. That's some crackerjack marketing. No doubt you'll come away from reading this still sort of believing in it; it actually takes practice to stop. Compared to that, accepting that Kentucky Fried Chicken's "seven secret herbs and spices" were really just salt and pepper is easy.

That wall

Posted Feb 28, 2008 19:52 UTC (Thu) by utoddl (subscriber, #1232) [Link]

Eleven. Not seven. Otherwise, yeah.

That wall

Posted Feb 29, 2008 3:29 UTC (Fri) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989) [Link]

>The Great Wall is visible from there. 
I thought the claim was that the wall is visible from earth orbit, not the moon.

That wall

Posted Feb 29, 2008 5:30 UTC (Fri) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

Everything's visible from (low) earth orbit -- canals, roads, smoke plumes. The claim was that the Great Wall was the only man-made feature that could be picked out from the moon. Of course it's completely false -- none of the walls are visible at that distance -- but the clouds enshrouding Beijing do look distinctly brown.

Which way is the wealth flowing?

Posted Feb 28, 2008 19:23 UTC (Thu) by dmarti (subscriber, #11625) [Link]

"The Chinese have a need for vast amounts of software as their country rapidly industrializes,
they have reasons to prefer software which is not controlled by American corporations, and
they have been coming under some pressure from those same corporations to do something about
their little habit of copying proprietary software without much regard for details like
license agreements."

Yes, but look at the trade numbers -- the US is sending the PRC about an IBM and a half of
wealth each year.  By the time they're paying up on their proprietary software licenses,
they'll own the big proprietary software companies anyway.

A Beijing trip report

Posted Feb 28, 2008 21:28 UTC (Thu) by BackSeat (subscriber, #1886) [Link]

I feel that I should know, although I take some solace in the fact that Wikipedia is similarly ignorant. What's a "BOF session"?

A Beijing trip report

Posted Feb 28, 2008 22:08 UTC (Thu) by DRBaldock (subscriber, #30881) [Link]

A Birds-Of-a-Feather Session.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_(computing)

"A BoF session, an informal meet-up at conferences, where the attendees group together based
on a shared interest and carry out discussions without any pre-planned agenda."

BOF

Posted Feb 29, 2008 1:39 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

Wikipedia fails to explain why it's called that, and I think it's probably not obvious outside of English-speaking countries. There is a very old rhyming saying in English, "birds of a feather flock together." "birds of a feather" is an old poetic way of saying birds with the same kinds of feathers, i.e. birds that look the same, i.e. the birds of the same species. Apparently, if you watch birds a lot, you know that they congregate with their own kind. So people use the saying "birds of a feather flock together" to point out cases where people congregate with their own kind, such as at a BOF session at a conference.

BOF

Posted Feb 29, 2008 20:53 UTC (Fri) by ernest (subscriber, #2355) [Link]

Could you please copy your statement to the wikipedia site? 

little pieces of knowledge like that tend to get lost if not kept in a common place.

Ernest

A Beijing trip report

Posted Feb 28, 2008 22:09 UTC (Thu) by vmole (subscriber, #111) [Link]

"Birds of a Feather". I *think* it originated at the old USENIX confabs.

A Beijing trip report

Posted Feb 29, 2008 1:48 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

...their little habit of copying proprietary software without much regard for details like license agreements.

There are no license agreements here to regard. What they have little regard for is copyright.

One topic which never came up [wrt free software] ... was license compliance.

Again, there is no license with which to comply. The issue is respecting copyright -- i.e. getting a license in the first place.

A copyright license doesn't order anyone to do anything, so you can't not comply with one. The only thing you could say is that unless you comply with the conditions of a license, you don't have it.

A Beijing trip report

Posted Feb 29, 2008 6:16 UTC (Fri) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

The USA did not recognize foreign copyrights or patents until 1891. As Lawrence Lessig points out, we were a pirate nation when it paid, only deciding to change our ways when it became profitable to do so.

Charles Dickens was the most-read author in America in his day. American publishers never paid him a dime. Compared to American behavior, the Chinese are quite respectable of American copyrights, because they sometimes pay, and sometimes beats never.

Copyrights in China

Posted Feb 29, 2008 17:19 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

Yes, any suggestion that Chinese people should respect copyright on Windows and Linux because it's the moral thing to do is just wrong. Copyright isn't a basic human right, it's just business.

Any serious discussion about this Chinese copyright problem is based on getting Chinese people to do what's in China's interest. For example, the USA may be willing to offer import access to China in exchange for working copyrights.

Incidentally, though I'm really fuzzy on this, I believe the Chinese government has already technically accorded the respect of copyrights the other countries asked for and the problem today is just Chinese people breaking Chinese law and getting away with it.

A Beijing trip report

Posted Mar 1, 2008 11:22 UTC (Sat) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

I think our editor is worried basically about GPL license compliance. You don't have to do anything special to get the license -- it is embedded in the software, but you have to comply with it in order to lawfully take advantage of it.

The proprietary equivalent would be when you buy one copy of Windows and then install it 1000 times. You are violating the terms of the license agreement that comes with the software. Of course, you are also disregarding copyright.

license compliance

Posted Mar 1, 2008 19:01 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

My point is there is no such thing as "license compliance." A license isn't an order, it's permission. It doesn't make sense to say "comply with a license." What you can say is "comply with the conditions of the license," but even then it's a stretch of the word. "Meet the conditions" is more accurate.

The license that comes with GPL software is a license to copy in certain ways. The issue is people copying in other ways. GPL is totally irrelevant to that copying.

I think one way to word what our editor is saying is that there is a problem with people doing things that would be permitted by GPL, except for the fact that they aren't meeting its conditions. But really, a better way to describe that behavior is simply to say they're copying the code without permission.

The proprietary equivalent would be when you buy one copy of Windows and then install it 1000 times. You are violating the terms of the license agreement that comes with the software.

When you make those 999 copies, the only thing you're violating is Microsoft's copyright, because Microsoft didn't give you a license to make those copies. MS did give you a license to make a copy on one machine's disk, and a backup copy, and maybe a few other kinds of copies, but that's irrelevant to those 999 copies.

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