Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? [LWN.net]

Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 19, 2008 7:19 UTC (Tue) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582)
In reply to: Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? by tetromino
Parent article: Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

I totally agree, and there's another thing: the number of Linux users is small but growing;
but the number of Linux users who care so much about free software that they will not use the
NVidia driver must be quite microscopic. (I suppose those are the same users that won't use
Adobe's flash player, or Adobe Reader -- which is still the only real option for filling
forms.  Personally I don't know any such people, though I'm sure they exist.)  Vendors who
want to pre-install Linux are unlikely to be put off by NVidia's proprietary driver.  I don't
foresee the Nouveau driver being real competition any time soon, and I don't think abandoning
the Nouveau project will punish NVidia in any realistic way.  Meanwhile, I agree with the
parent -- till some time last year, a Linux user who wanted high-end graphics would have had
reason to feel grateful to NVidia, which had both high-end hardware (unlike Intel) and
high-quality free-beer drivers (unlike ATI).

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Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 19, 2008 8:40 UTC (Tue) by michich (subscriber, #17902) [Link]

Vendors who want to pre-install Linux are unlikely to be put off by NVidia's proprietary driver.

They should be. It's one thing to download a proprietary driver and use it on one's machine, but distributing it together with Linux is another matter. The 'mere aggregation' clause of the GPL does not apply here, IMO.

Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 19, 2008 9:36 UTC (Tue) by yodermk (subscriber, #3803) [Link]

> I suppose those are the same users that won't use
Adobe's flash player, or Adobe Reader

Vastly different context than kernel modules/closed hardware.

I use Skype, Flash, and (rarely but occasionally Acrobat Reader).  Although I would be
grateful for adequate Free alternatives, there is nowhere near the urgency of replacing those
as there is of replacing closed kernel modules.  Closed kernel modules have a good list of
practical disadvantages, including being tied to the vendor when you want to upgrade the
kernel or x.org.  If there's a problem, *only* the vendor can fix it, not the hundreds of
awesome kernel hackers.  And there are potential legal problems.

(Yes, I use the closed nVidia driver on my laptop now, but I'm not happy about it.  I'll
switch to Noveau when it's ready and I'm certainly buying ATi on my next computer.)

> Vendors who
want to pre-install Linux are unlikely to be put off by NVidia's proprietary driver.

Haven't you read the comments from the Dell Linux guy?  Dell now *actively* prefers hardware
with open specs, *even for systems they pre-install Windows on*!!!

Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 22, 2008 15:23 UTC (Fri) by wilck (subscriber, #29844) [Link]

> Haven't you read the comments from the Dell Linux guy?  Dell now *actively* > prefers
hardware
> with open specs, *even for systems they pre-install Windows on*!!!

Please have a look at Dell's offerings. Except for the low-end, all laptops have NVidia
boards. Even the "Open Source PC" comes with an NVidia board.

Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 19, 2008 20:35 UTC (Tue) by AJWM (subscriber, #15888) [Link]

> the number of Linux users who care so much about free software that they will not use the
> NVidia driver must be quite microscopic. (I suppose those are the same users that won't use
> Adobe's flash player, or Adobe Reader -- which is still the only real option for filling
> forms.  Personally I don't know any such people, though I'm sure they exist.)  

Well, you may not personally know me, but I avoid NVidia hardware so that I don't have to care
about their proprietary driver.  (An ATI 9250, with a free driver based on specs they released
before they went closed, gives me a perfectly adequate 30 fps in FlightGear FlightSim.)

I don't use Adobe Reader either, there are fine free PDF readers out there, and I have no need
for filling out PDF forms.

I'll admit to using Adobe's flash player -- but note a key difference between using Adobe's
no-charge downloadable software vs NVidia's you-pay-for-it-by-buying-the-card software.  When
Gnash works as a Firefox plugin for YouTube videos, I'll switch.

Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 20, 2008 1:37 UTC (Wed) by BeS (subscriber, #43108) [Link]

>When Gnash works as a Firefox plugin for YouTube videos, I'll switch.

Good news for you: Gnash works as a Firefox plugin for YouTube since version 0.8

Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?

Posted Feb 20, 2008 7:05 UTC (Wed) by AJWM (subscriber, #15888) [Link]

Cool. I think I last looked at it at 0.7.1.  I'll give the latest a try.

Thanks.

Gnash and YouTube

Posted Feb 20, 2008 22:27 UTC (Wed) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link]

For values of "works" that include non-working, randomly positioned play/stop buttons, 100%
CPU usage, bad network buffering.

I used to use Gnash but if it's installed when I load my 80+ entry Comics tab, Gnash tries to
play *every* flash animation loaded even if it isn't visible on the page or on the tab.  At
100% CPU *per animation* load climbs to 20+ before it falls over from memory exhaustion.

Gnash and YouTube

Posted Mar 1, 2008 1:19 UTC (Sat) by zenaan (guest, #3778) [Link]

So did you submit the URL to the Gnash guys, so they could debug the problem?