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Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?Posted Feb 18, 2008 22:09 UTC (Mon) by ikm (subscriber, #493)In reply to: Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? by tetromino Parent article: Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves?
I second that. It's just awkward to state that Nvidia is "giving us nothing". Their drivers are unmatched. Yes, they are closed source. And, as such, yes, if you've got a problem with your
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Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 9:27 UTC (Tue) by yodermk (subscriber, #3803) [Link] > It's just awkward to state that Nvidia is "giving us nothing". Depends on who the "us" is. In the context of this article (and, just about every article on LWN), "us" is the Free Software community, those who care about openness because of its many advantages. In that context, nVidia has truly given us nothing. They sell hardware that works with Linux (because they made it work), but that does not advance the cause of those who believe they should be able to know about the internals of the hardware they buy.
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 16:20 UTC (Tue) by ikm (subscriber, #493) [Link] Is it right to draw the line the way you did between open-source developers and mere users who just need to get some work done today? Furthermore, isn't it just impolite to throw stones that big into a company which actually does provide linux support, though in the only form they can?
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 18:12 UTC (Tue) by vmole (subscriber, #111) [Link] The "mere users" made the choice to buy unsupported hardware. Why should I change my principles to support their bad habit? The way to help people addicted to tobacco is not to provide them with free tobacco, but to help them stop smoking.
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 19:05 UTC (Tue) by ikm (subscriber, #493) [Link] I think you don't have to change your principles in order to recognize that these people can be a part of community. What alternative would you suggest for people who need high-end 3d under linux now? To stop having these needs, right? Or to go develop their own drivers? Or maybe even go develop their own hardware? It's ok to have principles, but some grip on reality would be nice as well. Particularly regarding the fact that people with different principles and different needs can still coexist in the same world without making it look like a checkered board.
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 19:40 UTC (Tue) by vmole (subscriber, #111) [Link] You did suggest that I change my priniciples. You said I shouldn't say bad things about NVidia because they won't provide the information needed to support their hardware properly. (And actually, I don't say bad things about them; I simply don't buy *any* of their products, and, if asked, recommend that others avoid them as well.) And sorry, this is harsh, but if you don't care enough about free software to avoid products that only have proprietary drivers, then you're not part of my community. Yes, that means you can't play Duke Nukem Forever. Such is life. Now, don't get me wrong. If people want to spend their time working on Nouveau, I won't recommend that they be stopped, somehow. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask why they are supporting the one common 3D HW companies that is not making any effort at all to support the free software community. And no, I don't count closed source drivers that only work with certain kernels and certain architectures as "support".
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 20:34 UTC (Tue) by ikm (subscriber, #493) [Link] 3d is not only for self-indulging, as you're suggesting. And I'm certainly not a fanatic. I just happen to have work to do. You have suggested nothing in how to accomplish that. Suit yourself.
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 21, 2008 19:02 UTC (Thu) by amikins (subscriber, #451) [Link] ... Wait, what? You -ARE- aware there's REAL WORK that requires 3d graphics acceleration to be anything resembling efficient? There's modelling objects or products, either prior to production, or as the actual production in the case of media. Architects, engineers, animators.. All these people can reasonably require extremely high end 3d graphics to get their work done. Then there's simulations. Astronomers, physicists.. They, too, can need 3d modelling in order to get their work done; it isn't all pure number crunching in the background. You have to -show- what's happening, too. Oh, and then there's the game developers, too...
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 21, 2008 19:52 UTC (Thu) by vmole (subscriber, #111) [Link] Of course I'm aware of that. But I'm also aware those users, who have money to spend, did not use their buying power to influence one of the 3D companies to provide free drivers. They have taken advantage of the hard work of others to get off the expensive SGI workstations.
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 19:23 UTC (Tue) by mrfredsmoothie (subscriber, #3100) [Link] The only form they CAN? You know for a fact that NVidia is legally constrained from releasing free drivers for their hardware?
Reverse engineering: more than NVIDIA deserves? Posted Feb 19, 2008 20:41 UTC (Tue) by ikm (subscriber, #493) [Link] Of course not. They are just unfriendly people who despise linux crowd because they think they are too geeky.
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