Not so sure about the troll [LWN.net]

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 17, 2008 11:16 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091)
In reply to: Not so sure about the troll by stevenj
Parent article: SCO to continue the fight?

If I may inject something... I don't think Steve Bergman's case relies on distortion; it seems just a mocking understatement. Groklaw actually said:

Gates and Alwaleed have collaborated for at least two years. After attending a dinner at Gates's home in Bellevue, Washington, in early 2004, Alwaleed agreed to explore ways to assist Microsoft's expansion in Saudi Arabia.

Fact is, it doesn't really matter if the magical prince only had lunch with Bill Gates or was a close personal friend. You would not expect a SCO founder to be a Red Hat stockholder; the fact that this guy was a business associate of Mr Gates would not surprise anyone. Big money talks a lot between itself. If we are going to mistrust everyone who does business with Microsoft then I think the entire computer industry is tainted. Ditto with Gates.

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Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 17, 2008 19:15 UTC (Sun) by sbergman27 (subscriber, #10767) [Link]

Thank you, man_ls, for the accurate clarification.

In the long run... credibility is more valuable than the facts.  PJ does a great job of
presenting the facts.  But she either does not realize how badly she compromises her own
credibility (which would not be surprising considering the like-minded crowd which surrounds
her on her site) or does not think that it matters.  Or perhaps she is overconfident enough to
think that we do not need to maintain credibility as a precious resource.

I, personally, have found that being surrounded by a like-minded community is, in the long
run, a liability.  While I am a fervent advocate of Unix, Linux, and OSS, I tend to shun
Linux-only news sites, these days, in favor of sites which cater to a very multi-platform
oriented community.  I consider LWN to be an exception due to the notably high quality of
original material here.  But even so, this thread has been an effective reminder of why I
don't hang out with the choir as much as I used to.

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 18, 2008 0:58 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (subscriber, #10767) [Link]

"""
this is like the fourth or fifth time in this thread that I've had to point out the above
"""

Perhaps that is a good indication that "the above" is unconvincing, and that declaring
"There's Waldo" based upon "the above" is unwise and compromises one's credibility.  And if it
is unconvincing on a site as biased against SCO and Microsoft as we are here... how convincing
do you think it would be to more objective observers? 

Where's Waldo is a children's game, and should remain so.  It's not a license for adults to
jump to wild conclusions without reasonable evidence.

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 18, 2008 16:35 UTC (Mon) by stevenj (guest, #421) [Link]

It's not a question of whether you're convinced of anything, it's a question of whether you can describe the facts of the situation without gross distortion. Nor, apparently, are you able to acknowledge any correction that disagrees with your preconceived opinion.

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. And if you have to be corrected multiple times on the same point it says more about you than anything else.

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 18, 2008 20:30 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (subscriber, #10767) [Link]

"""
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. And
if you have to be corrected multiple times on the same point it says more about you than
anything else.
"""

I consider that the evidence which you and PJ wave around, making declarations that "There's
Waldo" is so far from conclusive as to qualify as comical.  Your "facts" simply have a very
limited relevance. I absolutely despise Microsoft.  I want to see them gone.  

But please... come back with some real, relevant, conclusive facts.  And then I will be more
than willing to use them in my own advocacy of FOSS.

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 18, 2008 20:53 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

Well, there's your problem.  You confuse facts with opinion.  "There's Waldo" has never been
thought a fact by anyone, except apparently you.  No wonder you have so much trouble.

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 18, 2008 20:55 UTC (Mon) by stevenj (guest, #421) [Link]

You are, of course, free to opine that the evidence is inconclusive, or (more to the point) dispute the relevance of the funder's relationship with Gates. But that doesn't give you license to misrepresent what the evidence was.

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 18, 2008 21:17 UTC (Mon) by jake (editor, #205) [Link]

Ok, this looks like it has gone about as far as it needs to, doesn't it?  I don't think anyone
is changing anyone else's mind at this point and the thread is becoming annoying to some.

jake

Not so sure about the troll

Posted Feb 20, 2008 2:55 UTC (Wed) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link]

Nor does it give him the right to call her psychotic. Psychotic is skinning your cat, putting
your PJ's on it and putting it in your bed. Psychotic is also showing up at your home in the
middle of the night with five or six knives, a shovel, a bag of lime and a bunch of trash
bags. 

Making allusions to an alleged scheme between multi-billionaires is simply biased journalism,
or more commonly, blogging. Personally I was always under the impression Groklaw was a blog,
although there is some stupendous information there it's always been colored by PJ's feelings.
Right or wrong that's just the way she runs her site, personally I don't mind. But calling her
Psychotic for it is way over the line. Personally I think the OP owes her an apology for such
a blatant public libel. 

psy·chot·ic  [sahy-kot-ik]
adjective
1.	characterized by or afflicted with psychosis.

psy·cho·sis  [sahy-koh-sis]
1.	a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that
indicate impaired contact with reality.
2.	any severe form of mental disorder, as schizophrenia or paranoia.