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Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

ITnews knows what open source's real problem is: lack of sufficient PR. "Right now the invisibility of open source across the general community is a problem. This lack of visibility will hurt open source far more than any technological barriers preventing people from using it. Open source companies who aren't focusing on educating the market are shooting themselves in the foot."
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What Open Source fails at

Posted Feb 13, 2008 16:25 UTC (Wed) by forthy (guest, #1525) [Link]

The story angle is that a senior IT manager had the perception that open source failed. This, concludes the author, is a PR problem. Well, I don't think so. This sort of manager apparently sits in his office and waits for some bribes to come in so that he can spend company money on expensive solutions nobody wants, but gives him a bigger pool/car/dick or whatever ;-).

Even if it's not active bribing, marketing people of high-price products make cold calls, advertise, and visit potential customer. This is all push-driven, because you can't sell high-price solutions when people look actively for one. They'll end up with a low-cost solution that does what they want. They'll be able to inform themselves.

What we really have here is a problem with the "free market" idea. A free market works when people are informed. It fails when people are uninformed. The information about open source projects is out there, just enter your query into Google, and you get there. Example: two years ago, we had an office move, and the new office should get a VoIP capable phone system. Just enter "VoIP telephony system" into Google, and Asterisk is rank three, just under Avaya.

Now back then, I suggested Asterisk to our IT manager, and he said "that's not for us", and gave some non-explanations to it. They had made an evaluation of Cisco vs. Avaya, and had chosen Avaya based on the soccer world champion ship sponsoring from Avaya ;-) (at least it appeared to be that). It turned out that the "that's not for us" answer was based on severe misconceptions what Asterisk is - e.g. supposed to be a purely community based software with no support whatsoever. Which is certainly dead wrong, but Digium doesn't have that much money to throw out of the window as Avaya (and yes: The user has to pay all this sponsoring, because the Avaya system price tag is three times the Asterisk system price).

So my conclusion is: We have a severe problem with the job mentality of senior IT managers. Hey, dudes, it's your job to inquire information, it's not ok to be spoon-fed by vendor representatives (they will lie to you anyway). And if you fall for expensive adverts, remember, it's you (your company) who has to pay for them! The solutions worth the price are worth the price because they don't come with an expensive ads budget. This will be always the case, so there's still a place for commercial software to thrive: in the minds of people who are too stupid to inform themselves. Or too arrogant to listen to underlings in their company.

What we could do for the benefit of the general public is an education campaign about how ads are evil, and why. A product advertised in an offensive way must cause negative connections with normal consumers - just because it's advertised offensive. Cold calls and SPAM can help us here, and the fact that open source browsers have good ads blockers might be the way to get the message to the user. Ads are not only killing e-mail, they hurt us. We have to pay more for less, because we have to pay for the annoying ads, too. Of course, all this inefficiency in selling products means "growth", because there's a big part of the economy which builds on the advertising money. But being inefficient means that other economies can run circles around this ad-based western economy.

The thing at which angry analysis fails

Posted Feb 13, 2008 16:48 UTC (Wed) by kirkengaard (subscriber, #15022) [Link]

Your frustration is showing.  Your initial analysis is reasonable, that the basis for this
article is the mistaken impression of the writer's manager.  Your relation of a similar
situation in your own experience is a useful analogue to the situation, and explains your
perspective.  

However, your assertion that advertisement is evil is not demonstrated by your premises.
While marketing quality does not map to product quality, this is a widely known reality, and
product research firms exist for just this purpose.  Your declaration that
offensively-marketed products decrease their perceived value to the customer base is also an
acknowledged reality.  Among your problems, you equate advertisement with internet page ads,
spam and cold-call solicitation.  This is an insufficient definition of the term, and
disagrees with the intent of the author of the article.  Beyond this, your conclusion that the
western economy is inefficient because of its dependence upon advertisement revenue lacks
proof, and your prediction of its downfall makes you look silly.  These are disproportionate
claims to make in response to what is merely yet another relatively low-clue article on "Why
Open Source Is Failing."

Please calm down.  Your boss might listen to you if you actually said things that make
business sense, instead of "The solution that doesn't have an advertising budget is obviously
superior.  Only idiots buy commercial software."

Explain, or seek a new job?

Posted Feb 14, 2008 2:55 UTC (Thu) by dmarti (subscriber, #11625) [Link]

"When I say business can learn from open source, I don't mean any specific business can. I mean business can learn about new conditions the same way a gene pool does. I'm not claiming companies can get smarter, just that dumb ones will die." -- Paul Graham

Sometimes you can sell the right thing internally, and sometimes you can move on.

What Open Source fails at

Posted Feb 16, 2008 12:41 UTC (Sat) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646) [Link]

You mix up advertisement and PR; it's not the same.

PR means to tell other people that there is a product at all, so that they find it in their
inquiries. Advertisement is only a very small part of that. And from my experience, most IT
managers hate cold calls. PR is, e.g., the job that the Mozilla foundation did for Firefox --
making its name known to the public at large.

What Open Source fails at

Posted Feb 22, 2008 15:08 UTC (Fri) by forthy (guest, #1525) [Link]

But the Mozilla foundation does ads. They had full-page ads in US newspapers and magazines. And the effect in the USA is not that high - Firefox is more popular in Europe, where the Mozilla foundation didn't make that much advertising. It appears to be that Europeans don't need so much ads to be informed.

Generally speaking, the PR for a community based product should be word of mouth. The press would cover relevant technology by itself; the advertising effect of e.g the c't reporting about how bad IE6 is and how well for comparison Firefox, Safari, and Konqueror work, is worth more than a full-page ad. And when people generally ask their c't-reading geek friends what kind of software they should use, instead of trusting ads in non-geek papers, things would improve.

That's my rant against ads: If you think an advertisement contains information, you fool yourself. Our economy is highly efficient in producing goods, it is highly efficient in selling refrigerators even to Eskimos, but it is extremely inefficient in resources and in selling. The sales channel on many ordinary consumer goods is where the money is made - not the production. Resources are wasted by way too much goods being sold - more than needed, more expensive than necessary. To some extend this is actually necessary, because we can't deal with unemployment, and we need economic growth to pay interrests.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 13, 2008 16:27 UTC (Wed) by kirkengaard (subscriber, #15022) [Link]

So that's our problem.  Open Source needs to market itself.  If only Open Source had a PR
firm.  Yes, if Open Source had a marketing department like Sun, Mozilla, Red Hat, Canonical,
and Novell do, then we'd really hit the big time.  There is no question in my mind that that's
why Open Source is failing.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 13, 2008 18:10 UTC (Wed) by grouch (guest, #27289) [Link]

Yes, if Open Source had a marketing department like Sun, Mozilla, Red Hat, Canonical, and Novell do, then we'd really hit the big time. There is no question in my mind that that's why Open Source is failing.

You forgot IBM (remember the sidewalk art misdemeanors?) and Google (was summer cold or something?).

Of course, if every company which depends on "Open Source" but doesn't make a big noise about that dependency were to suddenly start marketing that fact, it would be obvious even to "former boss[es] and mentor[s]" that FOSS has failed to avoid world domination. Even the most clueless suit seems to have heard of "Open Source" and "Linux" -- maybe they now need to be told how much more those words encompass than what they've heard from sound bites in the press and MS PR.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 18, 2008 0:49 UTC (Mon) by RobertBrockway (guest, #48927) [Link]

This discussion really surprises me.  5 years ago I would have agreed that a lot of suits
didn't know about OSS but today that isn't the case.  I'm a senior sysadmin and I deal with
everyone from senior managers to junior sysadmins in client organisations on a regular basis.
It's been my experience that in the last 5 years the suits have got a decent clue about OSS.
The may not understand all of the subtleties of the licences but they get the idea well enough
and they are happy to leverage it to the advantage of their business.

Where the community has a real problem is companies using OSS and not complying with the
licence requirements.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 18, 2008 0:40 UTC (Mon) by RobertBrockway (guest, #48927) [Link]

Open Source isn't failing.  It's been exceedingly successful and it's changing the world.  The
global network is based on open source software while Linux probably runs in your cell phone,
your PVR and definitely runs at least some of the infrastructure you use to make a phone call
(landline or cell) or watch TV.  The open source model has been adapted to many different
areas including knowledge distribution (wikipedia).

The truly amazing thing is that open source has achieved all of this without the majority of
the population apparently noticing.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 13, 2008 16:33 UTC (Wed) by pr1268 (subscriber, #24648) [Link]

I dunno... My perception is that organizations are drawn to Linux and open-source software products based on attraction rather than promotion, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Word of mouth is about the best form of advertising there is (and it's low cost, too!).

But, I generally agree with the article - most of the noise in software advertising is being made by the proprietary vendors. Although, I do see Red Hat and Novell ads fairly often, usually in IT journals.

Once Linux and the FOSS community can convince PHBs that it's okay to use non-proprietary software, then the PR "problem" will be partially solved.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 13, 2008 17:26 UTC (Wed) by kornak (guest, #17589) [Link]

This kind of thinking is the old paradigm. Open source is already prevalent in the industry
without the need to know it is there. It is superior and slowly replacing closed source
proprietary software. Those that choose proprietary will eventually suffer the consequences. I
think of it in an evolutionary way. the herd is thinning.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 13, 2008 19:17 UTC (Wed) by xorbe (subscriber, #3165) [Link]

Linux technical development has been working just fine without PR and marketing telling them
what to do, thank-you-very-much.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 13, 2008 23:21 UTC (Wed) by danielhedblom (guest, #47307) [Link]

I think the invisibility is a success in itself. Many products are built upon open source
without the PHB knowing about it. The list is endless. What open source needs is to continue
to get better and better. PR is just spin that dont contribute to the product at all. Open
source companies and solutions are seen, not just spoonfed with fancy lunches and
brainwashing.

I think it would be a bad move right now to start cramming open source down peoples throats.
Many it-shops are used to work in a way so very different from the community. This is
something that needs time to mature. Whats the rush? Its not like we are out teaching the
world "the one true teaching" or something but rather to find people who wants the same things
we want. 

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 14, 2008 18:10 UTC (Thu) by hazelsct (guest, #3659) [Link]

All of the commenters above who feel that Open Source couldn't benefit from more PR travel in
much too narrow circles.  Firefox had to take out full page newspaper ads to get attention,
and is still around 10% in the US (though much higher in Europe).  I can't tell you how many
times I've talked with a friend about it who has said, "Open what?  What on earth does that
mean?  You mean I can get an MS-compatible Office suite for FREE??  WHERE???"

If people knew about OpenOffice.org, it would have most of the office suite market by now, and
Microsoft revenue would be dropping like a rock.  I really can't wait to see major computer
makers like Dell and HP putting an option in all of their computer build systems the option
"Windows Vista | Vista Premium (add $100) | Ubuntu Linux (save $100)", that too would get us a
good 5-10% of the market right away.

Yes, we have a major PR problem.  By "problem" I mean that a minuscule fraction of the people
who would choose OSS actually know about it.  Not that we're hurting for it, but larger market
share would benefit our whole ecosystem -- and make life a lot harder for the companies that
do their best to thwart us.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 14, 2008 18:51 UTC (Thu) by grouch (guest, #27289) [Link]

I really can't wait to see major computer makers like Dell and HP putting an option in all of their computer build systems the option "Windows Vista | Vista Premium (add $100) | Ubuntu Linux (save $100)", that too would get us a good 5-10% of the market right away.

I predict your wait will be just as long as it takes for Microsoft's cash reserves to dry up. You can buy a Dell with Ubuntu right now, but you will pay as much or more for that computer as one with MS Vista + adware, and the computer will have less RAM or a slower CPU or a smaller hard drive.

Of course the EC or the DoJ could suddenly decide that there should be a competitive market and take steps to end such things as exclusionary site licensing and OEM pressures, but I don't expect either of those institutions to get around to doing anything helpful for "consumers" within the next decade or three.

The most effective "Linux PR" is still that which comes from satisfied users -- individuals to corporations.

Advertising Sponsors Continue MS Windows pre-Loading

Posted Feb 15, 2008 8:44 UTC (Fri) by AnswerGuy (guest, #1256) [Link]

From what I have seen of the last few computers I purchased retail(*) they currently come
pre-installed not just with MS-Windows (XP, Vista whatever) but also with a large collection
of demoware and marketing fluff (including some music, video clips etc).  Gigabytes of that
crap.

For example I bought myself a laptop and it came with "XP Media Center Edition" and enough
garbage to fill two DVD-R (DL?) discs.  The HP intro software explained that, if you wanted to
create rescue media you would need 4 DVD-R blanks or 2 DVD-R(DL) blanks to do the job (if I
recall correctly --- maybe it was only 1 dual layer DVD blank.  It's been awhile).

The point is that XP doesn't take up nearly that much disk space.

There were demos of MS Office, of Roxio, of some jukebox software, some DVD video viewing
software, anti-virus software, and several games, and I don't remember all the other junk.
There were a few diffent AOL and Juno or NetZero or whatever ISP sign-ups packages, etc.

Notice this isn't shareware. It isn't gratis-ware.  Clearly the manufacturers are being paid
to preload all that junk.  Powering on that system was like stepping unto the Las Vega Strip
--- being inundated with lurid pandering.

I've heard estimates that some manufacturers get about $200 per unit for all the garbage they
put on every consumer laptop.  That's why I can get a quality, widescreen, dual core laptop
with 2GB of RAM and 100GB or so of disk (and dual-layer LightScribe(TM) DVD-(R, R/W, RAM) and
various other bells and whistles for less than $1000.

To displace MS Windows on commodity consumer computing devices we have to displace and entire
marketplace of deep-pocketed advertisers.

As Linux becomes more popular we'll see a continuing migration towards software as a service
(MMORPG games vs. traditional standalone games, for example; I've found it's increasingly
difficult when looking at PC game software to find titles that can be played offline and
without a subscription).  Those are niches where a Linux could host the adware just as well as
MS Windows.

However much of the shovelware I saw on my system when I first bought it was stuff that would
not be commercially viable for Linux.  OpenOffice.org in lieu of MS Office; no sort of
anti-virus or anti-spyware is required on Linux ... and ClamAV is free ... and various bits of
Mozilla security enhancements are freely available; CD and DVD burning and authoring software,
as well as music/jukebox and video watching software (vis a vis: MPlayer and Totem, etc) are
free ... etc.

So only a small percentage of the shovelware would have any prayer of generating revenue back
to the advertisers if it was pre-installed on Linux.

(BTW: the system, as delivered, was shockingly limited in real functionality.  I couldn't even
watch a video without paying to register a bit of that shovelware --- which, of course, meant
that I waiting until after I had the system re-partitioned and Linux installed in the other
half of the drive; which, if course, entailed burning that set of "rescue" DVDs; there was one
really old Windows game I wanted to play on that system --- one that I'd played a few times at
my sister-in-law's and later seen on a software discount aisle at the local Fry's; later when
my Windows did manage to get munched --- restoring the DVDs took over 10 hours, blowing away
my Linux partition, of course; and then still didn't work correctly.  So I bought another copy
of XP so I could install that without all the other garbageware and without scragging my Linux
partition in the future.  Probably almost half of the copies of MS Windows sold are installed
on machines that already had another licensed copy of MS Windows on them but were the wrong
flavor or because the system was sold with Windows to a company that separately engages in a
bulk-licensing arrangement and routines re-images all incoming systems with their own
customized OS images).

So, it's not about saving $100 dollars.  To the laptop or consumer desktop system's vendor
that $100 dollars you want to save could cost them as much as $200 in advertising revenue (for
HP, Dell, etc). (That's probably why Dell only offers Linux on specific, mostly business
oriented, systems --- for example).

As to the original article: silly reporter!  Hear one anecdote and extrapolate a broad
pronouncement there from.  Need to get N words to the editor by deadline --- and any plausible
sounding drivel is fine so long as it generates page views.  In fact, drivel like this can be
better than anything that is insightful because of Slashdot surfer rage ---  large numbers of
people reading the article as fodder for their own rants to rail about the author's stupidity.
It's an almost slapstick comedy.

JimD


 * (I've gotten lazy in my middle-age; I used to buy components and assemble my own computers
--- but in particular I now tend to buy laptops as presents for some of my immediate family).

YAA (Yet Another Anecdote)

Posted Feb 16, 2008 3:39 UTC (Sat) by Max.Hyre (subscriber, #1054) [Link]

Pace, JimD, but some anecdotes can add up to something meaningful.

My daughter's shopping for schools, and we went up to WPI for a look-see. The student center/cafeteria/whatever has the computer help desk, so, of course, I was impelled to walk up and ask ``How many people run Linux?''

I was rewarded with a confused look, and the question ``What is...?lins?'' In the introductory session, it went without saying that MS products were de rigeur for students. This is a hard-core tech school, already!

Later, talking to a couple of Chem grad students, they allowed as how the IT system ran a number of Linux servers, and there were some geeks who were into it, but they were few and far between.

When WPI's reaction is ``What is...?lins?'', some PR is definitely in order.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 17, 2008 7:58 UTC (Sun) by muwlgr (guest, #35359) [Link]

Yes, OO.o is compatible to MS O. in significat extent, but when you are deeply relying on
internal and external programmability of the latter, the former just could not serve as a
drop-in replacement to you.

Other MS lockin-traps, as was mentioned many times before, are Exchange+Outlook and Active
Directory. That's why most of us (industrial, not home users) would not collect enough
political and technical will to jump off the Microsoft's needle in years and years ahead.

Linux, we have a PR problem (ITnews)

Posted Feb 18, 2008 15:30 UTC (Mon) by hazelsct (guest, #3659) [Link]

Like I said, NARROW CIRCLES!  For the 90+% of the users of Word, who don't do any programming
at all and just need to use it to type a letter or a pretty invitation, this is completely
irrelevant.  The moment they hear there's a free alternative, they either download it and
never think about M$ again, or they instinctively think "it must be too good to be true" and
don't try it for that reason.

Either way, the ignorance or the gut reaction against it are indications of the depth and
breadth of our PR problem.  If these non-programming masses got it (thanks to better PR on our
part) and used OOo, then its market share would climb so the corporate types couldn't avoid it
any longer.  Then MS Office would be relegated to the ranks of propritary Unix: specialist
tools with narrow and dwindling market share and declining technical advantage relative to the
ascendent commodity (in this case free) alternative.

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