It's about time those clowns showed some backbone [LWN.net]

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 18:58 UTC (Wed) by esr (guest, #14345)
Parent article: Red Hat legal speaks

Congratulations, Red Hat, but too late.

Ubuntu has been carrying links to livna-equivalent repositories addressing the
proprietary-codec problem for, oh, about eighteen months now without a peep from the big bad
rights-holders who were supposedly going to sue us all into oblivion.  Your me-to move might
have impressive two years ago; it sure isn't today.

Where were you when the community was looking to its leading vendor to make some kind of stand
on MP3 decoders *four* years ago?  Never mind, I know where because I was a Red Hat user then
-- you were taking the most gutless and damaging defensive position possible, actually
conceding ground in lawsuits that hadn't happened yet in a way that damaged the community's
prospects if they ever do. And all the while you were loudly denying that access to MP3
decoding was actually a functional problem.

I was disgusted with that spineless behavior then, and it's a major reason I eventually
stopped being a Red Hat user and switched to Ubuntu. I'm not impressed with your belated and
feeble attempt to undo the damage now.

I'm pretty sure now that Ubuntu is going to eat your lunch.  I'm certain that for your supine
gutlessness on MP3s, and for abandoning the larger struggle for desktop market share, you're
going to deserve that fate.

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It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 19:21 UTC (Wed) by spot (subscriber, #15640) [Link]

Are you so desperate to be considered relevant that you're flaming Red Hat for being prudent
on legal matters, as opposed to behaving recklessly?

Red Hat (and by proxy, Fedora) is the largest target for open source based legal issues. If
this means that we sometimes move slowly and cautiously, based on the advice of legal counsel,
well, that's how it is.

P.S. Stop calling us and hanging up. We know its you. We're seeing other people now.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 19:37 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link]

RedHat is headquartered in the US.  

Canonical is not, with offices in England and Canada.

Why should Canonical care about US patents or being sued in US courts when they don't have a
business presence there?  

As for the rest of your tirade, you're certianly entitled to your opinion, but you're not the
type of customer RedHat is after.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 19:43 UTC (Wed) by michich (subscriber, #17902) [Link]

Clowns? I can see only one clown.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 19:47 UTC (Wed) by mday_ii (subscriber, #25315) [Link]

Dude, go upload some smooth jazz to your player and relax.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 20:48 UTC (Wed) by leoc (subscriber, #39773) [Link]

Speaking of compromised values, are you still involved with Linspire or what?

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 22:40 UTC (Wed) by dmaxwell (guest, #14010) [Link]

With advocates like you, we sure don't need detractors.  Those "clowns" you speak of
contribute one hell of a lot in the proper style.  I prefer Ubuntu over RedHat and friends
myself but Ubuntu is good as it is due in part to quite a bit of work from RedHat developers.
They deserve some respect.

Who exactly is the clown here?

Posted Nov 7, 2007 22:54 UTC (Wed) by vnk (guest, #48923) [Link]

What a sad and unfounded tirade from a person who once was listened to. Glad you're not using
Red Hat/Fedora anymore.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 7, 2007 23:17 UTC (Wed) by flewellyn (subscriber, #5047) [Link]

So, wait, you WANT the distros to use proprietary codecs?  I thought you were all about the
open source.  Or is this just another bid for attention from someone who has not been relevant
for several years?

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 8, 2007 0:11 UTC (Thu) by sbergman27 (subscriber, #10767) [Link]

I'm assuming for purposes of this post that "esr" really is Eric Raymond.  I'm sure Jonathan
will inform us if my assumption is incorrect.

What a crass and nonconstructive post.  If you want to be considered a community leader... and
it is pretty obvious that you do... you need to act like one.  That means being constructive,
and employing at east a basic level of diplomacy.  Fedora and Ubuntu are two different
distros.  They share some focus in some areas, and differ in others.  I use Fedora on my
desktop, Ubuntu on my laptop, and a mix of Fedora and CentOS on my clients' servers.  As a
user, I have been frustrated, at times, with RedHat/Fedora's approach to the whole mp3/codecs
issue.  But I have always *respected* them.  And I have refrained from the kind of useless
petty griping that I see in your post here.  And in my opinion, you should, too.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 8, 2007 1:27 UTC (Thu) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]

Don't feed the trolls.

Clowns and ELER

Posted Nov 8, 2007 9:36 UTC (Thu) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

Speaking of clowns... Quick, somebody forward this post to ELER. We might get a new strip if we get lucky.

It's about time those clowns showed some backbone

Posted Nov 19, 2007 0:35 UTC (Mon) by squiggleslash (guest, #49117) [Link]

What on Earth has happened to ESR?

The above article seems to be little more than some pointless bile spewing. It's at a contributing member of our community, RedHat, and seems to do little but insult and demean them for little or no reason.

Fedora didn't support proprietary codecs? And? Why is he treating this as if RedHat was supporting the holocaust or trying to steal Eric's guns? RedHat had their reasons, they're actually pretty reasonable, they damaged nobody in sticking to their guns, all they did was make their distribution of free GNU/Linux fractionally harder to use.

It was bad enough when Raymond encouraged the factionalization of the Free Software community into "Open Source" and "Free"; now he appears to be intent on creating more splits within the sub-movement he co-founded.

Again, the free software and open source communities would do well to ignore the shrill voices of division, conflict, and alienation and look for those who promote calm, professional, unity.