Yet another male perspective on women in free software [LWN.net]

Yet another male perspective on women in free software

Posted Oct 4, 2007 12:25 UTC (Thu) by i3839 (guest, #31386) [Link]

I'm pretty sure you can't tell my gender/height/hair colour/etc, because all you know is my obscure random name. So is the internet a perfect world?

Personally I'm driven off from two projects, one because the main developers didn't appreciate outsiders working on their code and criticizing their code, even if it was on features they had on their todo list for years (and after digging in the mail archive, were implemented before multiple times by other outsiders).

The other was from a forum after they added code of conduct rules, but abused those for censoring things they didn't like. In my case, quotes from things that were said on a public mailing list, unfortunately the things said weren't very flattering, though highly amusing and said by moderators of that forum. And I even was so kind to not quote the mails where personal insults were flying around. I was a moderator too, but power abuse and censorship isn't something I tolerate, so after they refused to admit they did anything wrong I left.

There are too often power hungry types that can't control themselves who drive off lots of people, but do get more control over a project than is healthy.

Yet another male perspective on women in free software

Posted Oct 4, 2007 12:38 UTC (Thu) by mmarkov (guest, #4978) [Link]

I'm pretty sure you can't tell my gender/height/hair colour/etc, because all you know is my obscure random name. So is the internet a perfect world?

No.

I meant that when a group of people is trying to accomplish something together, ideally it is one's quality of work that should matter, not one's gender. That is what the grandparent post said.

Yet another male perspective on women in free software

Posted Oct 6, 2007 11:34 UTC (Sat) by i3839 (guest, #31386) [Link]

My point was that that already seems to be the case, but that the problems are more likely related to other things, like hostility, politics and other power games and generic immaturity going on too often.

Yet another male perspective on women in free software

Posted Oct 12, 2007 14:59 UTC (Fri) by obi (guest, #5784) [Link]

By judging someone purely on their technical merits, and not at all on their (lack of) social skills, you risk losing way more people (and their technical expertise) than you gain by tolerating this person.

It's a trade-off, but a lot of people don't see it that way.

The problem isn't that everyone should be treated equally (that should be a given, but it's true that some can't even manage that). The problem is that everyone should not be mistreated equally. Allowing abusive behaviour and telling people not to be thin-skinned, will only leave people that have an affinity or high tolerance for abuse.

I don't believe there's a need for censorship or banning or anything like that. I simply think the problem would be a lot better if people were to just speak up whenever someone uses unnecessarily abusive language.

Yet another male perspective on women in free software

Posted Oct 16, 2007 0:57 UTC (Tue) by einhverfr (guest, #44407) [Link]

I think that the key is that we shouldn't be judging *people* on technical merits but rather contributions. And helping people contribute.

Yet another male perspective on women in free software

Posted Oct 16, 2007 3:43 UTC (Tue) by einhverfr (guest, #44407) [Link]

I think I forgot to publish my previous comment, but my most successful open source project at
the moment (LedgerSMB) was actually a reaction against many of those same issues you describe.


So, I have (as a male) been driven away from at least one project for the exact same reasons
you describe.  The fact of the matter is that poorly run projects *should* be abandoned. 

I guess I would share my thoughts as a project leader (we are lead by a core team of six which
have equal voices and of which no business employs more than one).  This is designed actually
to avoid the major problem you describe, which is that people turn into [unflattering
adjective] when they have power but feel threatened.  By ensuring that the people who have
power are in competition with eachother economically, we can help ensure that the community
*as a whole* works together.  Yes, we have our arguments (some of which are quite vehement)
but we respect eachother and (usually) eventually make the right choices.

However, I think that there is another issue.  How do we encourage participation in general?
Do we welcome participants in our community?   See the challenge isn't recruiting women.  The
challenge is ensuring that everyone is able to benefit by contributing as they see fit.  Maybe
the contribution is code.  Maybe it is a usability suggestion.  Maybe it is help with press
releases.  The point is-- it shouldn't matter and people should feel welcome.