Jon, you forgot a link... [LWN.net]

Jon, you forgot a link...

Posted Oct 4, 2007 6:07 UTC (Thu) by kena (guest, #2735)
Parent article: Yet another male perspective on women in free software

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/sexy.html

esr really does have a way about him, sometimes. I can't quite put my
finger on what most annoys me about him -- the paternalistic tone of his
writings, the way The Hacker's Dictionary has been morphed to fit his
worldview (e.g., open-ended statements that, "clearly," are applicable to
all hackers; a more objective, somewhat less forcibly inclusive manner
might help), or... well, I dunno. But I find the essay linked to, above,
to be particularly unpleasant. Perhaps it's the overt objectification of
the very women who are attempting to prove they're not objectified. But
I digress.

Share and enjoy... I think not.

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Jon, you forgot a link...

Posted Oct 4, 2007 16:09 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774) [Link]

OK, while we're at that, let me have some math fun (or do some fun math?). When looking around Val Henson's page [1], I noticed a talk [2] "Women and the Culture of Free Software: A Study". Let's have a look at p.33. WITHIN the community, women get asked on a date about five times more than men. However, on p.3 we find that men outnumber women by a factor of 65 WITHIN the SAME community. What gives? That girls actually flirt ten times harder! ;-)

[1] <http://infohost.nmt.edu/~val/>
[2] <http://infohost.nmt.edu/~val/review/flosspols.pdf>

Jon, you forgot a link...

Posted Oct 17, 2007 18:28 UTC (Wed) by einhverfr (guest, #44407) [Link]

Val's material is well written an argued.  And I think it applies to a large subset of Free
Software.  There are, however, a few points I would make (interestingly the gender division in
LedgerSMB looks a lot more like Val's diagram of the proprietary software world, so I guess
our project can be proud :-) ).

1:  Dysfunctional communities should be abandoned anyway.  We are not coding in dark rooms all
alone.  The community is a community and includes social aspects.  We will all be more
successful if we focus on that issue.

2:  I suspect that there is also an OCD component to being a great hacker, and that societal
issues may influence the target of the obsessions (cleanliness vs security vs math vs software
engineering).  THis is beyond what we can address as a community.

3:  Our communities should be broader than the obsessive software engineering types.  People
should feel welcome to contribute in whatever way advances everyone.

Jon, you forgot a link...

Posted Oct 4, 2007 20:47 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Well, most of that essay makes sense, although it's phrased in an
excessively analytical tone which some might take offence at. Given its
target audience (geeks who shiver with fear at the thought of attracting
women, or they wouldn't be reading the essay) it might actually be a good
tone to take. (And yes, it's paternalistic, but again, in that essay in
particular that sort of tone makes some sense.)

(But, my god, it starts badly. Intelligence *does* attract women. You just
can't rely on it alone. Intelligent boors are still boors.)

(I was planning to pan it when I started, but then I think back to what I
was like, oh, five years ago or so, and it would have been damned useful
to the person I was then.)