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Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com)
News.com looks at Red Hat's plans for a lower-cost version of the Advanced Server product.
"Red Hat is becoming increasingly aggressive with its high-end Advanced Server software plans, but the company wasn't successful in persuading companies to pay $1,500 to $2,500 per year for a subscription to use the Linux version on low-end servers. The new Enterprise Linux ES product costs $349 or $800 per year, depending on support levels..."
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Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 17:22 UTC (Wed) by acar (guest, #10082) [Link] RedHat is becoming more aggressive with their update service as well. Now, they are making users either pay or fill out surveys regularly for security updates.I was wondering, how they would feel if thousands of Linux developers would start asking RedHat to fill out surveys every two months. Perhaps, they also adopted the managerial style of mostly failed enterprises that discovered the art of squeezing as much financial gain as possible from the only people supporting them.
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 17:44 UTC (Wed) by gbailey (guest, #58) [Link] Maybe I missed something in the press releases, but it looks like they're pushing the "subscription" idea more heavily with the "enterprise" users. I guess I fail to see the idea of "squeezing financial gain" from that--enterprise customers who want that level of support will expect to pay, will they not?And there's plenty of people (myself included) who run the regular "stock" 7.X or 8.X RedHat Linux on servers for "enterprise" usage who can download the aforementioned security updates for free from RedHat or one of the many mirror sites. If your comment is intended to refer to SCO's actions, I fail to see the connection... correct me if I'm off base here.
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 18:46 UTC (Wed) by acar (guest, #10082) [Link] RedHat has different levels of security update programs: Demo, Basic and Enterprise (http://rhn.redhat.com/preview/).The listed prices for the Demo, the Basic, and the Enterprise programs are "Survey," "$60/year," and "$96/year," respectively. In other words, even if you purchased the RedHat software (some of us did in spite of our local mirrors), you still need to fill out a survey form every 60 days in order to receive the security updates. There are some obligations that come with the use of Linux and other open software. One part of the obligations deals with the accessibility of the code. Since they cannot outright block the access to the code, and since they made a big deal of having automatic updates; they introduce these types of inconveniences to steer the users to pay for the updates. For me that constitutes an attempt to "squeeze as much financial gain as possible," and it is "the managerial style of mostly failed enterprises." In order not to be misunderstood, I would like to express that I use, support,and encourage the use of Linux in my work environment. Even though, I don't want to start a discussion on Linux versus Windows, I need to tell you that I paid more for the RedHat software than I did for the Windows upgrade and I get hassle-free security upgrades for Windows. (If you need to know, the only reason I still purchase Windows upgrades is to run a program that is currently only available for Windows.)
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 19:41 UTC (Wed) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link] Since they cannot outright block the access to the code, and since they made a big deal of having automatic updates; they introduce these types of inconveniences to steer the users to pay for the updates.This seems like a sort of "the glass is half-empty" way of looking at the situation. A more optimistic point of view might see the surveys as a method that Red Hat uses to measure the effectiveness of their services. I don't know for certain; last time I payed for RHN support there was no survey involved. What sort of questions do they ask?
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 20:06 UTC (Wed) by acar (guest, #10082) [Link] I sympathize with your optimism.FYI: (to their credit,) the survey is short and simple.
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 20:35 UTC (Wed) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] You do not have to fill out the survey if you pay for the Basic/Enterprise level support. You do have to fill out the survey every 2 months if you just have a demo account.If you do not like to fill it out and use up2date, you can download the RPMS from ftp.redhat.com or its 100+ mirrors. The cost of that will be 0.00 beyond your time and net charges.
Out-of-date vs. up2date Posted Mar 14, 2003 12:23 UTC (Fri) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link] OK, this is coming from a Mdk Cooker user that updates a couple times a week,often more, to the latest available, but... Does anyone besides me see anything ironic about quibbling over one-year limit post-release support, with a service called "up2date"? One of the characteristics of Linux is, after all, that it develops "at internet speed." I mean, yes, I understand the longer deployment cycles of many business users, who may spend a good six months testing it, before deployment, and once tested, may want to wait at LEAST a good 2-3 years b4 even THINKING about the next deployment cycle, but that doesn't change the fact that with an OS like Linux that develops "at Internet speed", if your base installation is a year or more old, it's more out-of-date clear-the-cobwebs and brush-away-the-dust than "up2date", and no service, short of "up2dating" the entire installation, will fix that. Thus, ending basic level support at a year makes sense, as that's at least the equivilant of the 2-3 year major generation and several SP/OSRs minor generations later, that comparitively glacial speed proprietary-ware normally supports. Considering the fact that with software libre, there's both the option to bring security update support in-house, and the option to outsource it to some third party, neither of which exist with proprietary-ware, where when the maker decides to stop supporting it, you are left up a creek without a paddle, no matter WHAT the negotiable price point, it's not such a bad situation after all, IMO.
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 13, 2003 2:34 UTC (Thu) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] I *really* don't understand the complaint here. How is the situation now any different than before Red Hat came out with up2date? Except of course that if you *want* to use the automatic update service, you can pay for it -- and there's even a way to get this added service for free. The ftp server and mirror network still works like it always did. Better, in fact, since there's more and better mirrors.
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 12, 2003 18:46 UTC (Wed) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] RedHat is becoming more aggressive with their update service as well. Now, they are making users either pay or fill out surveys regularly for security updates.You can still get security updates and announcements entirely for free and without filling out any surveys. What you're getting for your money or survey responses is access to their up2date service, which is nice but far from necessary.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 18:11 UTC (Wed) by vondo (guest, #256) [Link] $300 for the cheapest version of Linux that will sit on a desktop? And even that will only have guaranteed support for about 3 years? Tell me again how Linux is so much cheaper than Windows?I agree, RH is trying to squeeze us now that so many of us are running their version of Linux. I wonder if they couldn't make more money selling it at $100 a crack? Then I'd consider buying a copy or two for home, but not at these prices. Eric
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 18:44 UTC (Wed) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] If you'd read the article, you'd see that you can play $179 for a year's support for the basic workstation version. Of course, this doesn't mean the standard Red Hat distro is going to be dropped -- this is just the enterprise level. Your copy or two for home is still much cheaper than "$100 a crack" -- and it's still released under the GPL. No one is squeezing you.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 19:50 UTC (Wed) by vondo (guest, #256) [Link] Let me explain our situation. We're an educational institution. We have a cluster of roughly 25 machines, mostly serving as people's desktops. That means yearly fee of $4500. The standard distro ceases to be an option at the end of the year, when RH drops support for 7.2 and moves to a 12 month support time frame for their standard linux.How does keeping Windows + Office up to date compare in cost? What about just XP + StarOffice. If this isn't being squeezed, I don't know what is. I suspect we paid less when we were an OSF/Alpha shop.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 20:27 UTC (Wed) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] Uhm. No you can download the distro from ftp.redhat.com or mirrors for FREE. I do not see where you are being charged 4500.If you have to have the Enterprise support level contracts then you are being asked to pay for that support so that Alan Cox, et al can make their mortgage payments.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 21:42 UTC (Wed) by vondo (guest, #256) [Link] Let me try to put this simply. The downloadable version is not an option because of the 12 month support window. The Enterprise versions are VERY expensive.I don't need support, per se, I need patches so that I can keep our cluster running for something like two years between OS upgrades. With windows, you can do this. You buy XP for ~$100, Microsoft patches the holes for 5 years or more. With Redhat, no such luck. You either get basically no patches (with the downloadable version) or you pay through the nose for Enterprise products which only have a 3 year window before being end-of-lifed. What I want is patches for an OS that can live for 2-3 years for a reasonable price. $180/machine/year is not reasonable. Maybe my university will be able to work out some reasonable pricing scheme.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 22:05 UTC (Wed) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] Maybe you can get XP server for 100.00 and 2-3 years of free support. We surely haven't been able to.While I am not too happy with Red Hat putting release life-times to 1 year per release.. I also realize that they have to make money to pay the bills. There are a lot of small companies like owlriver.com and such that will be doing support contracts for releases that have been dropped by Red Hat. I do not think that the costs will be that much different per machine.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 12, 2003 23:28 UTC (Wed) by nicku (subscriber, #777) [Link] Updates are available from mirrors, and can be downloaded with a simple rsync script (I'll send you mine if you want), and can also be applied automatically (using rpmfind or your own scripts) or you can implement a system for automated application with minimal syasdmin support. Whether we have to pay for access to updates beyond a year is another issue, but I don't see how you get "basically no patches." If you have technical ability in your team, you certainly can get the updates and a system for getting and applying them for zero money. Not a bad deal. Now, where does Alan Cox's wage come from...?
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 13, 2003 0:50 UTC (Thu) by torsten (guest, #4137) [Link] "What I want is patches for an OS that can live for 2-3 years for a reasonable price. $180/machine/year is not reasonable."
Torsten
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 24, 2003 21:35 UTC (Mon) by barrygould (guest, #4774) [Link] I don't need support, per se, I need patches so that I can keep our cluster running for something like two years between OS upgrades.But the way you make it sound is your cluster will suddenly become useless without updates from RH, which doesn't make sense to me. If your cluster is well firewalled, you may not need to worry about most of the updates, as they're usually security patches for public services (bind, sendmail, apache, ssl, ...)
If not, then you have the option of applying the patches yourself.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 13, 2003 2:39 UTC (Thu) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] I work for an educational institution too. I estimate that we've got about a 1000 linux boxes (not counting students), about 300 of which I am directly or indirectly responsible for. We don't pay Red Hat anything except for a boxed set here and there. The one year cycle is going to be a bit of a pain, but a large portion of our users are clamoring for the latest and greatest anyway.
These new prices are ridiculous Posted Mar 13, 2003 8:56 UTC (Thu) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link] Yup, I'm just praying someone else sees the opportunity to make a few bux before the end of the year. Ok, maybe not enough to show up on RedHat's .com scaled radar but enough to feed a couple of geeks by providing subscriptions to security and other critical updates for RedHat's normal distro.One year is a joke. I just wish someone at RH would realize that everyone is NOT going to pay for their Enterprise level product, yet still have production machines like labs that need a fairly stable product. By stable I mean .2 or .3 releases only. With a minimum 18 month (plus a few months for a .2 to really stabilize, get tested and rolled out, etc) interval between .2 releases and only 12 months of security patches...... does anyone else see a problem here?
Red Hat revamps premium Linux plan (News.com) Posted Mar 13, 2003 2:55 UTC (Thu) by anand (guest, #414) [Link] Hi,I am using the (free) demo account. Recently, my account expired and I was greeted with the survey form. The info RH collects is nothing confidential. email address, how many machines you run that kind of thing. Nothing much to worry. In any case, I am asking my company to get a basic sub, to support Linux since our biz runs primarily due to Linux. -Anand
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