OOXML loses a battle [LWN.net]

OOXML loses a battle

Posted Sep 13, 2007 14:47 UTC (Thu) by obi (guest, #5784)
Parent article: OOXML loses a battle

To be honest, I'm not so sure OOXML is much worse or better than ODF. Both are more or less a serialization of their respective apps' state. That makes both of them pretty hard to implement by a third party.

f.e. AbiWord is not using ODF as its standard output filter, because it doesn't match their internal representation that well.

I'd prefer to see a more abstract document format that shares as much as possible with existing standards (html, css, rdf, svg) and allows extensions (xml makes this pretty easy) so the vendors don't feel held back by the standard, and common extensions get merged into the standard where it makes sense - a bit like how the OpenGL ARB works.

However, back in the real world this would just create yet another standard that nobody implements. So I guess we're stuck with ODF and OOXML.

(Log in to post comments)

OOXML loses a battle

Posted Sep 14, 2007 11:26 UTC (Fri) by andrejp (guest, #47396) [Link]

>To be honest, I'm not so sure OOXML is much worse or better than ODF. Both are more or less a serialization of their respective apps' state. That makes both of them pretty hard to implement by a third party.

Pff. That has got to be the most asinine thing regarding document formats I've read in quite a while.

The document format should be the representation and description of *document structure*, not application's state. That's exactly what makes OOXML largely unimplementable by third parties: unlike ODF, which represents *document structure*, OOXML represents *application state*. A document structure can quite a bit more easily be equivalently rendered by different applications then application state which is inherently unique to the application (hence it is called 'application state' - and if you want to work on, or with, that state you essentially need to duplicate, or emulate to a sufficient degree, the application).

>f.e. AbiWord is not using ODF as its standard output filter, because it doesn't match their internal representation that well.

Gee... Let's just forget ODF then, standardize AbiWord's internal representation (*application state*), put it into a standard envelope (which is what XML is, and nothing more), prepend a catchy word of the day that seems to matter to *other* people (and cross our fingers that those open-dummies and ignorant decision-makers don't notice the difference between professed and actual) and call it.. well OpenAWXML!

That should make it easier. And standard. Not a standard description of document structure though, but STANDARD APPLICATION, which is exactly what this game is all about (and them poor open-dummies thought it's about interoperability and that our objections have to do with technicalities heh).

Ka-ching!

PS: Prepare grea$e. Just in case it gets stuck and needs some pushing at the last minute.

OOXML loses a battle

Posted Oct 12, 2007 15:37 UTC (Fri) by obi (guest, #5784) [Link]

Not sure what you're getting at - you seem to agree with me that there should be a more abstract format that represents the document structure, instead of all these different apps internal representation, but then go on to claim that ODF is it?

Is it really?

The snippets I'd seen of it made me believe otherwise, but I'm perfectly willing to revise my opinion of it.