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Getting Started with the Trolltech Greenphone SDK (Linux Journal)
Linux Journal takes a
look at the Trolltech Greenphone SDK. "Trolltech recently
released many smartphone developers' dream combination-the Linux-based
Greenphone and its open-source Qtopia Phone SDK. The Trolltech Greenphone
is a full-featured tri-band GSM (900/1800/1900MHz) mobile phone with a
built-in 1.3 megapixel camera. Like many other modern smartphones, it
features a QVGA touchscreen, Bluetooth, client USB, mini-SD Flash and
stereo audio connectors."
(Log in to post comments)
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 8, 2007 2:47 UTC (Sat) by mikov (subscriber, #33179) [Link] Is this competition to OpenMoko ? I was under the impression that the Greenphone was not intended to ever be a real phone competing on the market, but I could be wrong.
At this point I am not sure that two open Linux phones competing against each other is necessarily a good thing. At least in the US neither phone is likely to be subsidized by the carriers. So, only Linux geeks like me would buy them. Is commercial success likely ?
On the other hand, it would be very interesting to port OpenMoko's software (GTK-based) to the Greenphone, and Greephone's software (QT-based) to the OpenMoko. That is the power of free software.
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 8, 2007 7:07 UTC (Sat) by rossburton (subscriber, #7254) [Link] No, the Greeenphone is a developer device, and not a real phone. There are various licensing clauses which, IIRC, mean you can't put GTK+ on it.
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 8, 2007 12:22 UTC (Sat) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link] Maybe you should check your recollections, before writing something,Ross... Writing IIRC doesn't exonerate someone from doing a bit of basic fact-checking, and, in fact, as soon as you feel compelled to write IIRC, you should stop writing and cancel your comment. It's a simple matter of basic, intellectual, honesty. So -- how about doing a little reading of the various bits and pieces at http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone and telling us exactly what you meant?
Because I cannot find anything that indicates that I would be prohibited
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 9, 2007 6:36 UTC (Sun) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] Wow boudewijn, touchy much?
I'm afraid Ross is correct. Clause 7 from the rather draconian Qtopia license http://trolltech.com/pdf/Qtopia_GreenphoneSDK_US_v1_1.pdf (linked from http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphon... )
"Distribution of modified components not included in Appendix 1 of this Agreement is strictly prohibited."
Appendix 1 lists Applications, Games, and Settings (i.e. control panels). That's all! Infrastructure, such as the windowing toolkit, kernel, drivers, etc, is most conspicuously absent. As the OSI has said recently, if I'm not allowed to distribute my changes to your software, then your software is not considered open source.
Kind of ironic, you scolding Ross about not fact checking...!
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 9, 2007 6:49 UTC (Sun) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] Strawman. Sure, Qtopia is not open source / free software. Therefore it's not a substitute for OpenMoko. But where does it say that you cannot flash your phone and put anything you want on it, or run a GTK application on it as it stands?
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 9, 2007 6:54 UTC (Sun) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] Correction: apparently Qtopia itself is open-source (dual-licensed under GPL and commercial, like Qt). But the Qtopia SDK that accompanies the Greenphone doesn't seem to be. My point stands -- that doesn't mean you can't run other applications on it. It's like any proprietary system.
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 9, 2007 6:58 UTC (Sun) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] It's your device, obviously you can write and flash whatever you want. But if you can't distribute it, then what's the point??
It appears to me that Trolltech is carefully trying to prevent Greenphone owners from modifying the windowing toolkit and a whole bunch of other things. Do you disagree?
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 9, 2007 7:31 UTC (Sun) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] The document you link to says you can't distribute a modified SDK (except for some components). That doesn't mean you can't distribute an application that can be installed on a greenphone, or that you can't distribute a new flash image for the greenphone, or even that you can't resell a greenphone after installing a new flash image on it. The SDK is not what comes on the greenphone. It is a developer kit that comes separately (and that you will run on your computer, not on the phone).
I don't work for Troll or know anyone there, so if you still doubt that you can distribute applications for the greenphone, perhaps you should contact them. There may be a document somewhere that says what you say, but it is not the one you link to.
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 9, 2007 17:42 UTC (Sun) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] Applications are obviously allowed, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I'm talking talking about modifying the infrastructure -- the programs *not* listed in Appendix A -- like the windowing toolkit.
I said...
> It appears to me that Trolltech is carefully trying to prevent Greenphone owners from modifying the windowing toolkit and a whole bunch of other things. Do you disagree?
I can't tell from your reply if you disagree or not. If you disagree, then please tell me how I can replace *just* QTopia with GTK and distribute the result in a such a way that other developers can use the result. That sounds like a clear violation of the SDK license, no? If you agree with what I said, then I'm not quite sure what we're discussing. :)
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 10, 2007 8:27 UTC (Mon) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] I'm really not sure how the greenphone is setup. Qtopia itself is GPL. The Greenphone SDK is not GPL or redistributable with modifications. But presumably you can use GPL-Qtopia to develop applications. The Greenphone SDK is not what is running on your mobile. So I don't really understand your question.
I don't see how you can "just" replace Qtopia with GTK -- that's a bit like "just" replacing libc with a Lisp-machine library. Qtopia is fundamental to the Greenphone. But if you want to distribute a GTK binary, or even a platform for developing GTK applications on the greenphone (that does not use their SDK), you can certainly do so. And if you want to totally replace Qtopia with GTK -- that's like replacing the whole software stack with OpenMoko (and a SDK based on OpenMoko), and again, you can certainly do so. Don't expect Qt applications to work when you're done, though.
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 10, 2007 18:55 UTC (Mon) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] OK, I think we're saying the same thing: Trolltech has locked down areas of this phone that they don't want you to modify, like the windowing toolkit. And that's fine; it's their right. It just means that replacing parts of its infrastructure (i.e. stuff not in appendix A) means you pretty much get to reverse engineer the entire phone from scratch.
I'm sure the Greenphone is a fine combination of hardware and software, it's just not a very open platform. You can write anything you want on *top* of the SDK, but don't you touch the software *in* the SDK. If you touch it, you can't distribute it.
Do we agree? I still can't tell! :)
Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 10, 2007 19:03 UTC (Mon) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] We agree the Greenphone is not particularly open as a development platform.
Price Posted Sep 8, 2007 7:34 UTC (Sat) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] It took some poking around, but they want US$695 for the gadget, and either $0, $195, or an undisclosed sum (i.e. "how much have you got?") for various software license alternatives. I don't see any indication that it's not a real phone.
Check the Greenphone FAQ Posted Sep 8, 2007 7:55 UTC (Sat) by hmh (subscriber, #3838) [Link]
So, it is a real phone. But not an end-user one. Yet.
Check the Greenphone FAQ Posted Sep 10, 2007 16:42 UTC (Mon) by gouyou (subscriber, #30290) [Link] Yet ? The Greenphone is already available for several months ... And it's not looking like they are going to market it any time soon.
Gphone vs Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 8, 2007 11:03 UTC (Sat) by GP (guest, #47253) [Link] Hmm... The big questions are: what exactly Google's phone will include ? How open will this thing be ? Will we have two or three platforms (i.e.: will Google use OpenMoko or GreenPhone as basis or will it create something entirely new?). And the last, but the most important question: how open will the end-user phone be ? Because open SDK is great but Symbian SDK is also kind-of-open. And even Pocket PC's SDK was free at one time (free as in beer). So you can easily develop software. But what good can all your creation do if your friend can not buy the hardware in local shop ? We know the answer: most developers went with Symbian and PocketPC - because the hardware was at least available (even if the platform was mostly closed)... So... What about end-user product ? How open will this thing be ? It's important. Remember Zaurus ? It too used 100% open Qtopia, but it was "augmented" with binary blobs and it took heroic effort and many years before it was possible to install 2.6 kernel and last version of Qtopia on the device - and by that time interest for the platform waned...
Gphone vs Greenphone vs OpenMoko ? Posted Sep 8, 2007 13:23 UTC (Sat) by tajyrink (subscriber, #2750) [Link] Greenphone is apparently mostly closed, with "community edition" including stuff only to write end-user applications, there's nothing open about the Qtopia platform itself: http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphon...
OpenMoko, on the other hand, is really open, and the parts that are not are clearly documented. Mostly GSM and GPS chips' internal software with which communication is done via serial lines so as not to hinder freeness of the rest of the stuff.
I hope Google would choose OpenMoko, Greenphone sounds to me more like yesterday's stuff with regards to openness of the platform. Of course competion on the 100% free software platforms would not be bad, either, if Google chose their own way.
Getting Started with the Trolltech Greenphone SDK (Linux Journal) Posted Sep 8, 2007 12:35 UTC (Sat) by nbd (subscriber, #14393) [Link] Too bad that quite a few components in the Greenphone SDK are proprietary. That makes it almost useless as a developer's toy.Better hack on OpenMoko instead :)
Greenphone vs. OpenMoko Posted Sep 8, 2007 19:12 UTC (Sat) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] And the GP costs more.
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