LCE: Linux, hardware vendors, and enterprise distributors [LWN.net]

LCE: Linux, hardware vendors, and enterprise distributors

Posted Sep 5, 2007 17:08 UTC (Wed) by bfields (subscriber, #19510)
Parent article: LCE: Linux, hardware vendors, and enterprise distributors

he praised how Dell has taken care to put together hardware which is entirely supportable with free drivers to ship with Ubuntu pre-loaded.

According to Dell's site they've got two desktops and a laptop for sale in the US which ship with Ubuntu. The two desktops only ship with nVidia graphics, and if you didn't already know that means proprietary drivers will be required for full support, then there's nothing on the website to tell you that.

I'm typing this on the laptop (a 1420n), which shipped with two proprietary drivers, one for the Intel wireless, one for the modem. I assume the need for the proprietary wireless driver will go away with a kernel upgrade at some point, and I don't ever expect to use the modem, so I'm not complaining--it's a fine laptop, and about as free-software compatible as what I could get anywhere else.

I can find desktops on Dell's website with Intel graphics. So I'm not sure what the criteria were for choosing these two desktops to install Ubuntu on (no doubt they had some good reason), but "entirely supportable with free drivers" can't have been at the top of the list.

(Log in to post comments)

LCE: Linux, hardware vendors, and enterprise distributors

Posted Sep 5, 2007 17:42 UTC (Wed) by charlieb (subscriber, #23340) [Link]

> no doubt they had some good reason

Really? What gives you such confidence?

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 5, 2007 19:56 UTC (Wed) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

I ordered my Dell 620 laptop with an nVidia card, instead of the default Intel (which is in there too, but turned off), and operate it with the Free nv driver. I use the machine for work, so I never run 3D code. The nVidia card uses more power, but doesn't compete for bus bandwidth with the CPU. I had a choice of the ATI card, which today I would choose since ATI has announced support for a complete free driver.

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 5, 2007 23:59 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

I recently bought a Dell/Ubuntu 1420n laptop.

It's fantastic. Multimedia buttons, Sleep, Hibernation, 3D acceleration, 2D acceleration, SD card slot, Wireless, etc etc.

All of that works out of the box. OUT OF THE BOX. I bought it, opened it up, turned it on, and started using it. Total setup time was about 10 minutes.

After upgrading the 3D drivers to those provided by Gutsy I am using Fusion. (well actually now I am running Debian and it's just as kick-ass)

It actually uses less CPU time to move windows around in fusion then it does on 2d-only metacity.

Sorry Intel's open source drivers far outstrip Nvidia's open source drivers.

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 6, 2007 2:43 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

Yes, the Intel drivers are nice enough, but the hardware device they are driving steals memory bus cycles from the CPU to refresh the screen, and thereby slows down all CPU operations, all the time. An nVidia card with dedicated memory, however much you and I may hate its drivers, doesn't slow down the main CPU just by being on. As far as I know you can't buy a machine with Intel graphics that doesn't steal bus cycles. I'd like to be proven wrong.

So, (1) there may be rock-hard practical reasons to choose other than Intel graphics, and (2) having chosen nVidia, you're not obliged to use the proprietary nVidia driver. The really Free "nv" driver works great for most practical uses, including all of mine.

(One exception: if I'm running two X servers, on two VTs, suspend/resume gets very confused, but I don't know whether to blame the nv driver.)

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 6, 2007 10:52 UTC (Thu) by jond (subscriber, #37669) [Link]

I'd be interested to see some benchmarks of e.g. kernel compiles comparing the performance when you use the intel or the nvidia graphics.

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 6, 2007 15:57 UTC (Thu) by bfields (subscriber, #19510) [Link]

I know nothing about graphics cards, and I'm entirely willing to believe as you say that there were good reasons for choosing the ones they chose. But I'm still left wondering why he said that:

Dell has taken care to put together hardware which is entirely supportable with free drivers to ship with Ubuntu pre-loaded.

I find it hard to believe that "hardware which is *entirely* supportable with free drivers" was such a high priority, when you can find hardware (even among the hardware that Dell already sells, with other OS's!) that has obviously more complete Linux driver support.

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 10, 2007 2:54 UTC (Mon) by mdomsch (subscriber, #5920) [Link]

In fact, yes, we do carefully choose what hardware to sell in systems sold with Linux. Free drivers make it easier to develop, test, debug, and fix than non-free drivers. We intentionally made sure that Intel video chips, with their completely free drivers, are available in all the systems told, though one can choose to buy the nVidia cards if you wish. Likewise for wireless - we include the Intel wireless solutions in the notebooks because of their excellent support of open source drivers. The only closed-source driver provided is for the modem in the notebooks, which is present though relatively few people use modems any more.

See http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04 for technical details on Dell's offerings.

Thanks,
Matt
Dell Linux Technology Strategist, Office of the CTO

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 10, 2007 16:39 UTC (Mon) by bfields (subscriber, #19510) [Link]

We intentionally made sure that Intel video chips, with their completely free drivers, are available in all the systems told, though one can choose to buy the nVidia cards if you wish.

That's not what the ordering system says: I go to dell.com, choose "home and home office", then "open source pc's", and "shop for ubuntu" (from the "Helpful Links" sidebar on the left), and I get this page. The two desktops listed are "Inspiron Desktop 530 N" and "XPS 410N". The 530N gives a choice of "128MB NVIDIA GeForce 8300GS" or "256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT-DDR3". The 410N only offers the former.

If that's a mistake, I'm happy to hear it! Let me know how to order one with the Intel hardware....

nVidia OK for 2D

Posted Sep 18, 2007 2:52 UTC (Tue) by mdomsch (subscriber, #5920) [Link]

I need to post a correction. I was mistaken about the XPS 410n, it does only come with nVidia graphics, not Intel as I believed.

As for the Inspiron 530n, Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty doesn't have drivers for the Intel 82G33/G31 Express Intel Graphics Controller that is available in that system with Windows; so for the current product offering with Feisty we had to restrict (meaning not sell) that controller when sold with Ubuntu; Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy is expected to have those drivers. We'll revisit the list of supportable hardware if/when we announce plans to deliver Gutsy.

I apologize for the confusion my earlier comment caused.
-Matt

LCE: Linux, hardware vendors, and enterprise distributors

Posted Sep 6, 2007 0:22 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

> I'm typing this on the laptop (a 1420n), which shipped with two proprietary drivers, one for the Intel wireless, one for the modem. I assume the need for the proprietary wireless driver will go away with a kernel upgrade at some point, and I don't ever expect to use the modem, so I'm not complaining--it's a fine laptop, and about as free-software compatible as what I could get anywhere else.

I have a 1420n also. After a while of playing around with Ubuntu I switched back to using Debian Sid. It required a lot more setup, but I just feel more comfortable using Debian.

(I lost my desire to run many multiple Linux distros a couple years ago. Not saying Debian is better then Ubuntu.. Ubuntu's default setup is FANTASTIC for new Linux users. None better. I was very impressed)

If you upgrade your kernel to one that supports the mac80211 protocol stack (I am using wireles-dev branch) then you can take advantage of the updated iwl3945 drivers that do not require the regulatory daemon. (the kernel stuff is still open source, just the daemon is closed)

http://intellinuxwireless.org/?p=mac80211&n=Info

I didn't have any luck with the mac80211 package. The wireless dev branch works ok, but I think I may have some problems with encrypted networks (haven't tried any yet)

But this is ok, because the touch pad is a very new ALPS version, not synaptic like I thought.

I requires a one-line patch to the Linux kernel to get it to work with all the bells and whistles.

http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/8/4/184