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A Tokyo trip report

The free software community is truly global in scope - we are all over the world. A casual visitor might be forgiven for thinking otherwise, though: the people found on our mailing lists and in our code repositories are, to a great extent, based in Europe or North America. There is no shortage of talented developers elsewhere, but they are hard to see; they do not participate in our community at anywhere near the same level. We are clearly weaker as a result.

One attempt to improve this situation can be found in the Linux Foundation Japan Symposium, held a few times each year in Tokyo. This event was started by OSDL, and is being continued by the Linux Foundation. The idea [Symposium
sign] is to bring a few community developers over for a couple of days and have them talk with Japanese developers about what the community is up to and how they can be a part of it. Your editor was lucky enough to be invited to the July meeting where, between encounters with sushi, sake, and Japanese beer, he was able to get some interesting work done.

First, though, was an encounter with the Yokohama Linux Users Group, which had invited your editor to come talk seeing as he was in the neighborhood anyway. YLUG meetings, as it turns out, look much like LUG meetings just about anywhere: a couple dozen or so technical guys show up to hear somebody talk about free software. The beer and dinner (and more beer) gathering afterward was special, though; if more user groups included that sort of event, attendance at meetings would doubtless go up.

The symposium itself began with presentations from your editor and Paul Menage, author of the process containers patch. One of the important features of this event is that it includes simultaneous translators; said translators were somewhat dismayed by your editor's habit of changing his talks (and slides) right up to the point where the laptop gets plugged in at the podium. Their presence is important, though: it allows attendees to follow the talks without having to struggle with a foreign language; they can also ask questions in Japanese and still have the presenters understand them.

As it happens, language issues, while not on the formal agenda, were a big issue at this event. It is easy fall into the trap of believing that anybody who is sufficiently well educated to be part of our development community will, naturally, have learned the English language along the way. The truth of the matter is that there are many languages one could invest time in learning, English is a hard language (especially for those whose native language is far removed from English), and that many people who might have studied English for years have never really had a chance to use it enough to become truly proficient. English really is an obstacle for many potential contributors to our community. It slows down many developers, makes others afraid to participate in public forums, and blocks some entirely.

One step which is being taken to improve this situation is the translation of a number of core kernel development documents into Japanese. The documents of interest are primarily process-oriented - those which tell prospective developers how the community works and how to get patches accepted. Translation of serious technical documentation would require quite a bit more work and would be hard to keep up to date, so that is less likely to happen. Japanese versions of the documentation seem unlikely to go into the kernel repository itself, so they will have to be hosted elsewhere; they should, in any case, provide a useful resource for Japanese developers hoping to begin with the kernel.

The translators got to work in the opposite direction for a while as Akinobu Mita discussed his work on the fault injection framework. At any event designed to increase community involvement it is important to highlight the efforts of local people who have been successful; Mita-san's work, which makes it possible to find problems in difficult-to-test error recovery paths, is an important contribution to the kernel development toolkit. He has, recently, been posting fixes to a long series of bugs found through the use of fault injection, making the kernel more stable for everybody.

[your editor] The afternoon included a panel session which, among other things, covered the kernel development process. One of the key points in your editor's talk on that process is that code must be posted early; if a company insists that code pass through all of its internal quality assurance processes before being submitted, it is likely to post code which is in need of major changes. It turns out that this can be a problem with Japanese companies; one developer talked about "stone-headed managers" who are deathly afraid that somebody will post something which embarrasses or shames the company. Strange as it seems, the stone-headed manager problem is not confined to Japan; there is little to be done except to continue to try to educate those managers - or wait until they get promoted to a level where they are no longer a problem.

The second day consisted of smaller sessions where developers from Linux Foundation member companies could talk about their work and get questions answered. Fault injection was on the agenda again, as were various virtualization topics and the translation issue. Closing statements were made, and the event shut down until next time - scheduled for November.

The key to building a community and keeping it together is good communication. By bringing in community developers, the Japan Symposium certainly succeeds in raising the level of communication with the Japanese community. There is no better way to learn about how a community works than to talk with those who are in the middle of it. This series of events might just be part of why contributions from Japan appear to be on the rise. A less obvious but equally important point is this: communication goes both ways. Any speaker who attends this event can only go away smarter, having learned something about how the wider world sees free software. That, too, can only be a good thing.


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A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 3:13 UTC (Thu) by showell (subscriber, #2929) [Link]

Ah Jonathan

You are no longer the hidden face behind the key strokes. This is the first photo of you I have seen!

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 7:22 UTC (Thu) by xuxa (guest, #29601) [Link]

Along a similar off-topic tangent, Jonathan, how do you pronounce your last name? The katakana in the picture reads like "Corvette" with a B...

Pronounciation

Posted Jul 19, 2007 12:50 UTC (Thu) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

It sounds like they got it about right then - it's pronounced with a hard "t", and not as if it were a French name.

I'll admit I worried a bit about the sign...for all I know it could read "crazy man from Colorado" or some such...:)

Pronounciation

Posted Jul 19, 2007 22:15 UTC (Thu) by ronaldcole (guest, #1462) [Link]

The katakana transliterates to "jonasan corubetto". And it is nice to be able to put a name to a face after a half a decade reading LWN.

Jon Corbet

Posted Jul 24, 2007 1:19 UTC (Tue) by alvherre (subscriber, #18730) [Link]

See also

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdubflickr/364518092/
and
http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&w=all&q=jonat...

Take a Bit Farther

Posted Jul 19, 2007 3:29 UTC (Thu) by ccyoung (guest, #16340) [Link]

It might be a bit off topic, I have to say I was 50 before I ventured outside the US. It was a truly awakening experience - two weeks in Thailand turned into three years - and drinking in others' experiences and cultures is exhilarating beyond belief.

It's also a great honor to work professionally with peers in different cultures, something I almost think should be mandatory, like a forced sabbatical.

Take a Bit Farther

Posted Jul 19, 2007 7:31 UTC (Thu) by ortalo (subscriber, #4654) [Link]

Don't think so. There are areas where it is mandatory (research career and post-doctoral study for example) and I do not think this improves the experience, on the contrary (world-wide) arrangements (e.g. between research team)s may greatly diminish it...
Of course, I totally agree with you on the benefits of seeing other parts of the world live...

English in Thailand

Posted Jul 19, 2007 6:20 UTC (Thu) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

> English really is an obstacle for many potential contributors to our community. It slows down many developers, makes others afraid to participate in public forums, and blocks some entirely.

At least in Thailand, this is the single largest inhibitor of all software development.

English deficiencies also reduce technical aptitude, particularly with free software. The answers to nearly any problem you can have are available to you if you can find them in the English-language web. For troubleshooting, it's one thing, but woe to the non-Anglophone developer whose job depends on several free software components checked out of CVS HEAD. Imagine if all discussion, code comments, and checkin messages were in Latin. (If you know Latin, imagine Martian.) Would you take that responsibility?

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 7:37 UTC (Thu) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link]

Curse that Tower of Babel! :)

I have to admit, I probably have a pretty unpopular opinion of this situation, given how unpopular my opinion on similar things with disabled people are. Namely, not everyone gets to join in, and no, that ain't always fair. The guy in a wheelchair can't come to field combat with any of my combat groups, and the guy who doesn't speak English doesn't get to participate in my development projects. Simple as that.

The development project at least is open to people who want to learn English. Which, while hard (I know I've never managed to learn any Japanese, and I can't remember a stitch of Latin or Spanish which I did learn at one point), isn't impossible, and is something those people are just going to have to accept as necessary if they want to use software written by English speaking people.

Yeah, maybe I'm an unsympathetic ass, but I just don't see much point in whining about reality.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 8:16 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774) [Link]

Right. We struggle so much for interoperability of computing systems yet try to keep political correctness about interoperability between people. Certainly, unless some global catastrophic disruptions happen, the mankind will largely speak a single language in 100-200 years or so from now. I believe the amount of work-time needed to translate all available in English technical documentation to another language is larger than the time to learn English for all people that speak that given language. And this disproportion will only grow with time.

PS. I don't speak English natively.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 9:35 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

mankind will largely speak a single language in 100-200 years or so from now

I don't think, but still, it's really useful to learn English, not only to participate in free software projects, but it's quite good if one travels to foreign countries (people living from tourism tend to speak English even in Japan or France) or to read the newest Harry Potter book when it's published, not when it's translated. There's a Hungarian proverb: "you're as many people as many language you speak", which is very true.

Bye,NAR

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 10:44 UTC (Thu) by micka (subscriber, #38720) [Link]

> people living from tourism tend to speak English even in Japan or France

Well, don't be so sure ;) At least in France, it's really far from the truth...

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 26, 2007 5:50 UTC (Thu) by renox (subscriber, #23785) [Link]

> France) or to read the newest Harry Potter book when it's published, not when it's translated.

The correlation between tourism and speaking English is not that good: France,Italy and Spain are the first countries for the tourism in Europe but nothern country are much better for the language skills (I'm French).

As for Harry Potter books, they are not very good to learn English: too hard as many words are related to mythical creature, etc, and Lois Mac Master Bujold or Asimov books are much better :-)

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 9:44 UTC (Thu) by pcampe (guest, #28223) [Link]

>Certainly, unless some global catastrophic disruptions happen, the mankind
>will largely speak a single language in 100-200 years or so from now.

200 years from now, we have real-time, multi-language, inch-size translators, so won't be the need for a global language, an impoverishment from the cultural diversity and richness we have now with many different languages with millions of books and documents written.

If I can say, I've noted that a very tiny part of american people care about speaking a foreign language, so they underestimate the difficult for a non-english speaking person to use another language for everyday's work, and I guess that if american are not so american-centric, this would help a lot in interoperability between people.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 10:37 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774) [Link]

> 200 years from now, we have real-time, multi-language, inch-size translators, so won't be the need for a global language, an impoverishment from the cultural diversity and richness we have now with many different languages with millions of books and documents written.

If these "real-time, multi-language, inch-size translators" are so good, the "millions of books" would be translated with no problem.

> If I can say, I've noted that a very tiny part of american people care about speaking a foreign language

People are lazy; true for any nationality/locality. Americans are lucky to be born in a country where the native language is (as of today, at least) the least common denominator in science and business.

> so they underestimate the difficult for a non-english speaking person to use another language for everyday's work

Don't envy ;-). The more people learn English today, the sooner your dream of "inch-size translators" will become reality...

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 14:30 UTC (Thu) by Hanno (guest, #41730) [Link]

> 200 years from now, we have

First, I want the jetpacks, the flying cars and the moon colonies they promised me for seven years ago.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 18:02 UTC (Thu) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link]

It has less to do with not caring about other languages, and more just to do with practicality. If I am doing work in English, either I need to learn your language so you can help or you can learn my English so you can help. Guess which one I'll choose?

The same goes in reverse. There are a LOT of really cool things going on in non-English-speaking countries that I'm interested in, but it's not their job to convert all their stuff to English so I can participate. It's my job to learn their language. If I don't think it's worth the effort, then that's my choice, and my loss.

I wasn't saying that everything should be done in English, just that people shouldn't whine about how it's unfair that people in non-English-speaking countries have difficulty functioning in a largely English-speaking community of software development. If a translation of the documentation isn't available, and you want to participate... learn English. Yeah, that's really darn hard (learning any new language is hard), but that's just how reality is - it's in English, learn it or you don't get to use it. Simple.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 20, 2007 0:02 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

just that people shouldn't whine about how it's unfair

Well in this article, at least, nobody's whining about unfairness. The whining is about the loss of the work the non-English speakers could do if not for the English lanuage barrier.

And it really is just whining, by the way. (Or, if you think that has negative connotations, it's pointing out a problem, not advocating a solution). I don't see anyone seriously suggesting a way to breach that language barrier that doesn't cost more than it would gain.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 22:26 UTC (Thu) by riel (subscriber, #3142) [Link]

Yeah, but Linux kernel developers would like to see more participation
from developers all around the world.

It is not a question of "not letting some people play", it is a question
of "how can we make it easier for people to contribute?". We can all
benefit from the contributions of more developers.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 8:25 UTC (Thu) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

It's all fine and dandy to dismiss non-english speakers, but given how anglo-saxon countries (and the US-centric computer industry) resist the metric system most of the world uses that strikes me as a rather hypocritical stance.

Localisation requirements are a fact of life. Have been since biblic times. It's sheer hubris to expect they'll be solved by switching to a single language when none of the various empires in history managed to do it.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 11:04 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774) [Link]

> given how anglo-saxon countries (and the US-centric computer industry) resist the metric system most of the world uses

Yes, having to switch from US Letter to A4 in practically any piece of software makes me angry too. But this will pass...

> Localisation requirements are a fact of life.

There are many other ugly facts of today's life (e.g. a need to support millions of lines of COBOL). Doesn't mean this will never change.

> none of the various empires in history managed to do it.

You're wrong. _All_ empires did manage to do it. They wouldn't become empires otherwise. During a thousand years of the Roman Empire, Latin was such a language. During the years of the Soviet empire, Russian was such a language.

What you apparently mean is that none of the empires fully managed to suppress local languages/cultures (in fact, Romans didn't even try). But it's a different story.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 20, 2007 3:05 UTC (Fri) by Max.Hyre (subscriber, #1054) [Link]

Yes, having to switch from US Letter to A4 in practically any piece of software makes me angry too.
As a developer for a U.S. company I'd occasionally go to Switzerland to work with one of our customers.

A few times I took a couple of boxes of U.S. letter paper with me. They needed it so when they printed our documentation, they could read the edges, and have the page breaks work out right.     :-/

Paper sizes

Posted Jul 26, 2007 20:22 UTC (Thu) by ringerc (subscriber, #3071) [Link]

It's easy to proportionally scale US Letter documents to A4 and makes little difference to their readability. I deal with US Letter documents all the time and while I find them quite annoying it's not much fuss to work with them really.

The way every application and operating system requires you to change the paper size in three to eight different places, on the other hand, when you've already set "Australia" (or whatever) during the install... now that drives me nuts.

Paper sizes

Posted Jul 26, 2007 20:31 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774) [Link]

> it's not much fuss to work with them really.

Depends on the printer. All Xerox Phasers are extremely picky about page size; when it gets a request for a paper size that that isn't in its tray, it asks to load the corresponding media in the manual tray, and there is no way to force it to use A4 instead...

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 19:34 UTC (Thu) by bfields (subscriber, #19510) [Link]

not everyone gets to join in, and no, that ain't always fair.

The article doesn't use the word "fair" anywhere, nor does it argue that this is an issue of fairness. What it says is:

There is no shortage of talented developers elsewhere, but they are hard to see; they do not participate in our community at anywhere near the same level. We are clearly weaker as a result.

If there are large communities of hackers that are or could be doing useful work, that isn't getting it back into mainline thanks to communication problems, then effort solving those problems could be effort well invested. And it's certainly easy to believe that this could be the case in Japan.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 20, 2007 9:24 UTC (Fri) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

This is a valid point, but I think you skip over an important fact: getting interested and involved in projects that use English will improve a developer's English. We don't learn computer languages for fun, but because they are the best way of communicating with a machine. Similarly, if a developer feels a good potential with a project, he will step up and learn the human language he needs.

I personally saw this once with a Thai engineer of mine who hated English, but loved Linux (Slackware!) so much that he bit the bullet and developed his proficiency. "Love me, love my dog," he used to say.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 12:56 UTC (Thu) by Hanno (guest, #41730) [Link]

I once wrote to LWN with a request to write reports about how Linux is used "out there" where we, the Anglo-Saxon/US&Europe crowd, never look.

Linux appears to be really big in Brazil, but software developers in China and India must be using Linux for /something/, yet I have never noted any major Linux application making its way back to the Anglo-Saxon sphere of the world. What applications do they use? What drives acceptance of the platform? What are the main problems for users in Asia?

So here's that request again. Jonathan, it would be nice to read more about this. Maybe LWN can commission reports about this from Linux developers "out there"?

Thanks!

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 13:05 UTC (Thu) by Hanno (guest, #41730) [Link]

> I once wrote to LWN with a request to write reports

...to read reports...

(I didn't request to write one for them, for sure.)

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 26, 2007 5:56 UTC (Thu) by renox (subscriber, #23785) [Link]

> yet I have never noted any major Linux application making its way back to the Anglo-Saxon sphere of the world

Well for China I don't know, but Ruby comes from Japan and I think that Lua comes from Brazil.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 19, 2007 20:44 UTC (Thu) by njs (guest, #40338) [Link]

>It turns out that this can be a problem with Japanese companies; one developer talked about "stone-headed managers" who are deathly afraid that somebody will post something which embarrasses or shames the company.

So then what they end up doing to prevent this is... post embarrassing code that hurts their company's reputation? This is a lovely arrangement.

A Tokyo trip report

Posted Jul 29, 2007 11:53 UTC (Sun) by dpotapov (guest, #46495) [Link]

People are lazy and learning a foreign language is not easy. So not many of us are ready to spend enough time and effort to become fluent in a foreign language if it gives us little in return. However, if you are motivated to learn a foreign language; if you feel it is important for you to participate in some project, which is what you really want to do, then it is just a matter of time.

Nowadays, English is de-facto the international language when it comes software development (and not only). So anyone who really wants to participate in any open source project should seriously consider to learn English well enough that it will not impede your communication with other people. BTW, my native language is not English as most friends of mine, and based on mine experience I would say that there is some correlation between one's ability to learn English and being a good programmer. All good programmers I know are capable to express themselves clearly (though not always in perfect English) while those who have most difficulties to get their message across are programmers whose code always looks ugly... I don't want to say that one thing necessitate the other, but it looks like there is a very strong correlation here.

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