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SO WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY... haan !?SO WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY... haan !?Posted Jun 17, 2007 16:58 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332)In reply to: Shuttleworth: no negotiations with Microsoft in progress by kripkenstein Parent article: Shuttleworth: no negotiations with Microsoft in progress
"" throughout the entire saga of Microsoft-Linux deals, I've wondered: are they *really* unspecified? Sure, publicly all Microsoft say is "200+ patents, etc." But perhaps in private their lawyers arrive at Linux (or Linux-using) company X's offices and hand them a list of the exact patents they claim are being infringed upon. They then say, "These are the patents... "
Well, lets see if i can follow in the footsteps of your point:
Imagine i'm a Linux operator inside US and M$ cames to me with that,
' you'd better deal and pay ': they would say
- didn't IBM pledge a basket of very god patents for OSS 'protection' and intention of defending them ??... bet M$ violates almost all of those!
- didn't Novell pledge a basket of very god patents for OSS 'protection' and intention of defending them ??... bet M$ violates almost all of those!
- didn't RH pledge a basket(smaller in number) of very god patents for OSS 'protection' and intention of defending them ??... bet M$ violates almost all of those!
' not so fast M$ ': i would say
But then there is a void !... M$ would be suing me, not an entire community, they surely wont allow me enough time to change to GPLv3, and place the issue of patents under international OSS community bodies , with the immediate treat of a counter suing ... Their strategy is :
- Divide and conquer;
- Get invaluable FUD arguments;
- Get the most money possible out of it;
Cant 'i' and anybody 'else' in equal situation, get from Linux Foundation, FSF, EFF or any other body, a pledge to get to my aid if things get ruff ?
M$ cuts deals with Novell about patents, IBM also i believe, and are trying to get the rest, so that nobody will be suing them about the *MANY PATENTS THEY( M$ ) ARE VIOLATING *...
hey!, but aren't those *PLEDGE* Novell, IBM and others patents at the responsibility of a specific OSS body ??... Why cant the *community of OSS developers and operators* get the same neutrality of a cross deal that Novell and IBM have,... without having to sign anything further with M$ !!??
Surely something can be done. Where is the community ??
"" In the actual deal, however, they don't specify the patents, perhaps because of legal (GPL) issues, or perhaps because that way... "
They don't reveal them because their strategy is based on an individual base deals... cutting off the community in bits, not letting the agglutinating GPLv3 to take hold fast if ever... divide and conquer.
*LINUX CORPORATIONS DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH M$*... representative international OSS bodies should in name of ALL.... unless... unless those bigger Linux Corporations wont mind to see the smaller and vulnerable ones fried by M$.
The big boys are left alone, because they are pledge to specific server tasks and because they already have deals anyway... but the smaller ones, the big fountains of innovation inside OSS, specially in the desktop arena, where things like, NX remote desk capabilities, LSTP, AIXGL/XGL, Beryl/compiz, KDE and Gnome are making M$ look like a monkey 'a la vista'... get their strength drained out...
"" Of course, all of this is speculation. But such a situation would lead to exactly what we are seeing, i.e. ""
oh... you have made a very good post here, IMO. Dont be shy. Its beyond speculation or conspiracy theories,... is in front of everybody eyes if they want to see it.
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SO WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY... haan !? Posted Jun 18, 2007 13:12 UTC (Mon) by ofeeley (subscriber, #36105) [Link] QUOTE: "The big boys are left alone [...] but the smaller ones, the big fountains of innovation inside OSS, specially in the desktop arena, where things like, NX remote desk capabilities, LSTP, AIXGL/XGL, Beryl/compiz, KDE and Gnome are making M$ look like a monkey 'a la vista'... get their strength drained out..."
Huh?
XGL == Novell (David Reveman etc)
I thought that the majority of the KDE and GNOME developers were sponsored by either Red Hat or Novell?
You leave the kernel out of your list, but there's a hand article here:
which shows that people payed by Red Hat make the most changes to the kernel by several metrics.
So, do you have any backing for the above assertions?
SO WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY... haan !? Posted Jun 18, 2007 16:14 UTC (Mon) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] Sorry for the loose language
"" I thought that the majority of the KDE and GNOME developers were sponsored by either Red Hat or Novell? ""
Yes i believe they are, but the projects are independent in a large scale, and with agreed and respected large design guidelines, trying to follow standardization efforts and guidelines... and how hard it was to achieve the present 'status quo' (nasty that Gnome vs KDE war)!,... and how much it remains to be done?
If the battle goes hard for differentiation and interoperability, as Linspire CEO says that 'Linux is not Windows', meaning differentiation, which should clearly not be a decisive factor, and instead **is a dangerous illusion** considering the past BSDs and 'Open' initiative failures with terrible consequences for Unix adoption, when everyone started to seek differentiation instead of standards, and because of past records of M$ which have only allowed interoperability to the point they please... messing APIs, changing protocols without notice, 'bubby' trapping code... and their immense FUD machine always blaming the other part!
So this differentiation can easily be extrapolated in spirit to Linspire is neither Suse or RH or Mandriva or Ubuntu... or Sabayon or PCLinuxOS or Linux XP... or any other way around, and we can easily expect much more pressure for *those sponsored or payed developers* to follow internal guidelines instead of the common standardization efforts.
In servers the issue is transparent because differentiation is based mostly on cleanness of code and support quality, and is not feature intense or have any visual impact, and so standards hold.
On the desktop all hell breaks loose for standards.
**Funny that Beryl+compiz will manage to integrate but AiXGL and XGL dont !!?** ,... and why isn't NX server integrated in the Xorg project, considering that X is such a good network protocol ?
... PERHAPS SMALLER INSTITUTIONS (guys!) MANAGE TO MOVE FASTER, INTER-OPERATE BETTER AND FASTER, AND INNOVATE FASTER THAN BIG CORPORATIONS!...
So M$ plays a nice guy, offers interoperability - which they should guaranty anyway by international regulatory bodies and courts of law orders - promoting heavily with it that differentiation trump card, for prospects of adoption and financial gains... but what that they are trying to achieve is to torpedo Linux standards, specially on the Desktop.
IMO so far, the best interoperability effort with M$ was ODF. It made them scared since a long time and willing to go along with it. That is the way to go, because *those that don't learn the teachings of history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes themselfs*.
... so why cant Linux learn from Unix history... and be a dominant desktop powerhouse instead ?
SO WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY... haan !? Posted Jun 18, 2007 17:23 UTC (Mon) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link] "I thought that the majority of the KDE and GNOME developers were sponsored by either Red Hator Novell?"
Actually, you're wrong, about KDE at least. The large majority of KDE developers are volunteers
SO WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY... haan !? Posted Jul 9, 2007 15:41 UTC (Mon) by hazelsct (guest, #3659) [Link] Can you back this up? Where are the data summaries like the LWN lists of who wrote the 2.6.2x kernels?
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