Whose project is it anyway?
A project's name is its identity which embodies all of the good (or bad) will that the software and its developers have built up over time. In order to protect it, a project will sometimes register a trademark for the name allowing them to control who uses it. If someone outside of the project tries to grab that control by registering the trademark, especially without consulting the development team, sparks will fly. That is just what we are seeing in a dispute between handhelds.org and two of the projects associated with it.
As one might guess from the name, handhelds.org is essentially a portal for open source, typically Linux-based, software for small embedded devices, mostly PDAs. It provides CVS repositories, bug tracking, mailing lists and other developer services to a handful of projects related to handheld devices. The GPE Palmtop Environment (GPE) and the Open Palmtop Integrated Environment (Opie) provided a user interface including some Personal Information Management (PIM) applications for PDAs. Both projects were developed using the facilities at handhelds.org, but it is apparent that there is a disconnect between the projects and the portal: is handhelds.org just a hosting site like SourceForge or is it something more? That question is at the heart of the disputes.
In August of 2006, several GPE Palmtop Environment (GPE) developers proposed moving the project from handhelds.org to a relatively new site called Linux-To-Go (LTG). The stated reasons for the move were somewhat vague, but it clearly was an attempt by those developers to gain more control over the hosting of the project and which development tools were used. It was perceived to be a power grab by some and was not met with wholehearted acceptance, but the main detractors were people associated or affiliated with handhelds.org rather than core GPE developers.
Another round of mailing list flames came about in October when the move to LTG actually started to happen. As with any acrimonious split, there were accusations of various sorts being thrown around, the GPE developers were accused of deleting the CVS repository on handhelds.org while handhelds.org was alleged to have deleted user accounts, links to the new site and mailing list messages. The transition seems to have gone well for LTG as most or all of the GPE developers moved over to the new site.
All of that bickering is well in the past now, the GPE project has moved on, and handhelds.org continues to host various projects, but a dispute over an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) channel has recently rekindled the flames. The administrators at freenode surely had no idea what they were stepping into when they acted on a renaming request from handhelds.org and pointed the #gpe channel at #handhelds-gpe. The #gpe channel had been in use by the project at LTG, and a request to control the channel had been made by LTG in November but had not yet been acted upon. When freenode discovered the problem they restored the channel to the LTG folks and promptly received an email from handhelds.org claiming GPE as their trademark. At that point, freenode took the channel away from both awaiting a resolution of the dispute.
It turns out that in March, George France, CEO of Handhelds.org Inc., which is the non-profit company that runs the website, applied to register trademarks for several of the projects that are hosted there. GPE and Opie were two of those projects. Then in mid-May under cover of an innocuous CVS comment, France changed the handhelds.org legal page to include a statement claiming that GPE, Opie and another 11 projects as "Trademarks of Handhelds.org, Inc."
France claims that GPE and Opie were always trademarks of handhelds.org and the registration is just to clean up the legalities of the matter:
The GPE folks claim that the name GPE pre-dates hosting on handhelds.org and that the active project should be the one to hold the trademark, as all handhelds.org ever did was provide hosting services. France never consulted with either project regarding registering the trademarks, presumably because he believed them to be already the property of handhelds.org. It seems fairly presumptuous to claim a project's name, even for the most altruistic of reasons, without consulting the people whose code embodies that project.
Whether the handhelds.org folks wish to acknowledge it or not, the active GPE project is now hosted at LTG. The GPE mailing list archives show no activity of consequence at handhelds.org since April whereas the LTG list is fairly active. Under those circumstances it seems disingenuous to suggest, as some handhelds.org folks have, that the LTG project is a fork and should therefore change its name. GPE has moved rather than forked.
Opie seems to have gotten caught in the GPE crossfire to some extent. The project itself was not very active when one of the earlier developers tried to start an OpieII project that would update the code to Qt4. His choice of hosting it at LTG was at least partially to blame for a request from handhelds.org that he not use the name OpieII as it infringes upon the Opie trademark. This led to yet another flame-filled thread about handhelds.org usurping a project's name, but it also led to a possible solution to the whole mess. One of the original Opie founders stepped in and has come up with a possible resolution where he will be licensed to use the Opie name and will host an Opie development site separate from handhelds.org (though still affiliated as opie.handhelds.org). In addition, a community council for handhelds.org would be formed and a code of conduct would be created to try and avoid these kind of situations in the future. One might hope this model could lead to better relations between GPE and handhelds.org, but egos on both sides would make that an unlikely scenario.
If a loose collection of developers comes together and starts contributing code to a project, one would think that they would be entitled to own the trademark on the name they chose. But unless the project puts together some kind of governing structure and applies for a trademark at or near day one, there can always be questions about the name. Does it belong to the founders, the current developers or the site that hosts their CVS repository? How do you define who is a "member" so that the governing structure adequately represents the interests of the "community"? These are difficult questions and are probably about the last thing a group of hackers wants to deal with at the initial stages of a project. In many cases, it is too early to tell if the project will even get going enough that it makes sense to spend any time on governance issues.
Trademarks are a bit of a double-edged sword, they can protect a project from someone misrepresenting the code, a spyware infested browser called Firefox for instance, but there needs to be some kind of entity that administers and enforces the mark. It would be difficult for someone completely unrelated to a project to register the trademark and hope to have it stick, as William Della Croce found out with the Linux trademark in 1996, but it costs real money to wrest the trademark back, and a free software project is unlikely to have that easily at hand. This is an issue that project leaders need to at least think about as their projects mature.
Posted Jun 7, 2007 3:30 UTC (Thu)
by vmlinuz (guest, #24)
[Link] (1 responses)
I just wanted to point out that I have had a connection with hh.org since at least late 2000 (the earliest mailing list post I can find by myself from a quick look), while never a core or hugely active developer. For the record, George is a genuinely good guy, who has contributed hugely to the Linux community with his far-beyond-the-call-of-duty work on hh.org, and while I'm not going to say that he's automatically right, I believe absolutely that he is trying to do the right thing. There may be a disagreement, but I cannot believe there's any maliciousness or self-aggrandisation involved on George's part.
Oh, and while looking for my history in the mail archives, I found this post which would appear to be one of the first mentions, possible the very first, of GPE in a hh,org context...
Posted Jun 7, 2007 22:00 UTC (Thu)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
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Posted Jun 7, 2007 5:44 UTC (Thu)
by fyodor (guest, #3481)
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Posted Jun 7, 2007 6:13 UTC (Thu)
by kolloid (guest, #25282)
[Link] (1 responses)
It is reported to work on ancient handhelds which are not only impossible to find in shops, but even at online auctions.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I don't understand why discuss a project that is interesting to 1% of Linux users and works maybe for 0.01% of them.
Posted Jun 7, 2007 10:08 UTC (Thu)
by JonoPrice (guest, #23155)
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Posted Jun 7, 2007 8:42 UTC (Thu)
by Los__D (guest, #15263)
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Posted Jun 7, 2007 15:43 UTC (Thu)
by jamesh (guest, #1159)
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Some points to keep in mind with this dispute include: George France has posted an extract from the Articles or Organization for Handhelds.org, but it does leave a few questions unanswered:
Posted Jun 7, 2007 21:57 UTC (Thu)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jun 8, 2007 0:25 UTC (Fri)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link] (1 responses)
In contrast, with open source software, we see people getting together with no formal declaration of their relationship and nobody pays anybody for anything.
I guess a music industry analogy would be where a band and label have been working together for five years and then one day the band says to the label, "you've just pressing CD's for us and your services are no longer required." And the label says to the band, "you've just been recording masters for us. Your services are no longer required." Has that ever happened?
Posted Jun 9, 2007 17:08 UTC (Sat)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
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My vague memory of a VH1 documentary (thus unbiased :))... was that the precedent for labels owning without written contract was that the majority of the monetary resources (hosting, promotion, etc) was theirs.. the creative work was 'minor' in comparison as the the label was taking the majority of the risk. Again... vague recollections and not a lawyer (but watched one on A&E)
Posted Jun 8, 2007 8:49 UTC (Fri)
by BackSeat (guest, #1886)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jun 8, 2007 10:06 UTC (Fri)
by gyles (guest, #1600)
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Were someone to produce a spyware infested browser and call it Firefox then the Mozilla organisation would be able to shut them down for illegal use of a trademark. This is because the ownership of the trademark is clear.
Posted Jun 12, 2007 20:00 UTC (Tue)
by aigarius (subscriber, #7329)
[Link] (2 responses)
Free software projects: PLEASE, DROP ALL YOUR TRADEMARKS NOW!
Posted Jun 15, 2007 14:24 UTC (Fri)
by arcticwolf (guest, #8341)
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On a side note, a legitimate use of trademarks was mentioned in the article, too - preventing spyware vendors from creating a spyware-infested browser and then calling it Firefox, for example. So no matter whether you think that this is a realistic scenario or not, trademarks do have their uses.
Posted Jun 15, 2007 14:30 UTC (Fri)
by pimlott (guest, #1535)
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Without wanting to comment particularly on the details of the situation...
Whose project is it anyway?
So what is George's motivation here? What does he want to do with the trademarks that he's so carefully hoarding?Whose project is it anyway?
For another instance of this problem, see LWN: Ethereal becomes Wireshark from last summer. I'll bet many people still download ancient, insecure releases from the frozen-in-time ethereal.com site. I'm sure glad I never let an employer register the Nmap mark!
See Also: Ethereal -> Wireshark
Hm, frankly I don't care. I've tried running Linux on PocketPC and it didn't work. Boot time is awfully long, applications crashes almost every 10 seconds, and many other problems. Basically Linux on handhelds was unusable and probably still is.Whose project is it anyway?
Despite appearances, this isn't a story about Linux on handhelds, that is just an interesting backdrop and an indication of what prompted the story. The story is really about who owns the names of projects and who owns, or can (and should) register, a trademark. It is also about how communities organise themselves.Whose project is it anyway?
Reminds me a bit of the Linux Journal/LinuxGazette story, hosting providers deciding they own what they host... :(Whose project is it anyway?
Whose project is it anyway?
Actually this story sounds like a lot of issues one hears in the music industry. Who owns the music? Who owns the band name? How does one split a band? Are hosting sites like music publishing labels?Whose project is it anyway? Flashbacks
I don't know much about the music industry, but I very much doubt that a music publishing label gets involved with a band without having signed a contract that answers most of those questions. For one thing, cash flows between the two almost from the beginning.
Whose project is it anyway? Music industry analogy
It happened quite a bit during the 1950's and 1960's with many bands. Various lawsuits with the labels winning a lot fo the cases. Enough occurred that most modern bands do know to ask and sign such contracts (the labels lost enough cases to know that they needed to have such contracts up front also).Whose project is it anyway? Music industry analogy
Apologies for the off-topic comment, but I thought "a spyware infested browser called Firefox" was a bit over the top and not at all in the spirit of LWN.Off topic
In what way? No-one is suggesting that Firefox _is_ a spyware infested browser.Off topic
I have investigated the situation with copyright, patents and trademarks for many years now and I can only say that trademarks are harmful to free software projects. All free software projects should just drop all trademarks. There are no legitimate uses for the trademarks that are worth this hassle. Period.Whose project is it anyway?
There have been multiple cases already where trademarks interfere with free software development, but not a single case has been shown where trademarks help free software in ways that could not be achieved without them.
That makes about as much sense as saying that copyright only leads to problems and that therefore, all free software projects should put their code into the public domain. Think about it - it may keep others from getting into trouble with you, but it will not keep you out of trouble.Whose project is it anyway?
Whose project is it anyway?
I have investigated the situation with copyright, patents and trademarks for many years now and I can only say that trademarks are harmful to free software projects.
I would be interested in your analysis of the Della Croce case. Does not this argue for defensive trademark registration at least?