Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx [LWN.net]

Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx

Posted May 20, 2007 5:29 UTC (Sun) by rqosa (guest, #24136)
In reply to: Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx by markc
Parent article: Two new initiatives from the FSF

> For whom ? Try telling that to Amarok users, let alone Winamp and iTunes users.

All three of those support video playback.

> a) please provide an example of how to configure apache to deliver more than one mime.type from a single filetype extension of only ".ogg" ?

One way: AddHandler cgi-script ogg

Another way: mod_rewrite

> b) if a) is possible then what should that extra mime.type be for Ogg/vorbis ?

audio/x-vorbis

> I would suggest that Ogg/Vorbis usage amongst elite geeks is maybe 50%, perhaps.

What basis do you have for that estimate?

> They are the majority of computer users that have never heard of "ogg"

The majority of computer users had never heard of MP3 (or QuickTime, or RealMedia, or Nullsoft Video, or AVI, etc.) at first, either.

> (ogg = ugh, phonetically it's just plain anti-slick)

That's just your opinion.

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Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx

Posted May 20, 2007 7:30 UTC (Sun) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link]

> All three of those support video playback.

Not "out of the box" without plugins. Cool, I didn't know Amorok now plays
video content, must look into that, but there are inumerable other
audio-only players that do not and never will play video as well.

> audio/x-vorbis

Reasonable. But no web server or web browser comes setup to recognize that
particular mime.type. For a few other related reasons I'd rather see
effort put into registering audio/mpx than audio/vorbis... however,
officially registering audio/vorbis and using web server workarounds to
deliver the mime.type from an .ogg suffix would solve the media delivery
confusion between audio-only and Ogg multi-media formats.

> What basis do you have for that estimate?

Personal observation. Asking the linux users I know over the years gets a
mixed response about how they save their audio content. "About half" still
use mp3. I do not know any winmac users who use Ogg by default and many
are perplexed when I send them Ogg/Vorbis content (ie; won't play). It's
got to the point where I personally no longer bother sending Ogg content
to someone unless I know they can play it... by default I have reverted to
mp3.

> The majority of computer users had never heard of MP3

Not in my world. I have never come across any computer user, that has any
interest in music, that has not at least heard of "mp3" and knows that
it's got something to do with "playing music".

> (ogg = ugh) That's just your opinion.

Yes, from trying to convert countless mp3 windows users to ogg and asking
them why they haven't bothered a year or so down the track... a common
retort is paraphrased as it "sounds weird" (the name, not the codec).
Admittedly that comes after them saying "but it doesn't just work in my
player"... which comes after the "no one else uses it anyway" comment.

Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx

Posted May 20, 2007 18:44 UTC (Sun) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link]

> deliver the mime.type from an .ogg suffix

It shouldn't matter what the suffix of a URL is; any URL can have any MIME type (not "mime.type").

> > The majority of computer users had never heard of MP3 (emphasis added)

> I have never come across any computer user, that has any interest in music, that has not at least heard of "mp3" and knows that it's got something to do with "playing music".

Maybe now they do, but they didn't in 1994. That was my point: all codecs/container formats/etc. were new once, and they didn't gain usage share by being named similar to older ones.

Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx

Posted May 20, 2007 19:14 UTC (Sun) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link]

One more thing:

> Not "out of the box" without plugins.

iTunes and Winamp support video playback "out of the box". Amarok currently requires the NMM or Phonon engine to be able to play video (presumably Phonon will be the default or only engine in KDE 4).

Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx

Posted May 21, 2007 5:58 UTC (Mon) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link]

> It shouldn't matter what the suffix of a URL is;

Technically true, real-world incorrect. Unless it's registered with the
IANA, and comes default in /etc/mime.types and most browsers and
applications respect whatever the official audio/vorbis suffix is, then
any individual diddling with an arbituary suffix is as good as useless
outside of that individuals range of influence.

> any URL can have any MIME type (not "mime.type").

It's actually "Internet media type".

> but they didn't in 1994... and they didn't gain
> usage share by being named similar to older ones.

In 1994 there was no prior mass saturation of the digital audio space with
a legacy format to compete with. I vaguely remember that Napster unleashed
somewhere near 1/2 billion mp3s on the planet before it was shut down...
near on a decade ago.

> iTunes and Winamp support video playback "out of the box".

I haven't checked lately but I'm pretty sure both require extra plugin
downloads to play back Theora streams.

> Amarok currently requires the NMM or
> Phonon engine to be able to play video

Wow, thanks, that is good to hear. I was under the impression that Amarok
would always remain an audio-only player but I guess with KDE4 they have
little reason not to allow for video playback as well. I'm looking forward
to Strigi and Phonon managing all my desktop media regardless of the
frontend media viewer.

Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx

Posted May 22, 2007 8:15 UTC (Tue) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link]

> > It shouldn't matter what the suffix of a URL is;

> Technically true, real-world incorrect. Unless it's registered with the IANA, and comes default in /etc/mime.types and most browsers and applications respect whatever the official audio/vorbis suffix is, then any individual diddling with an arbituary suffix is as good as useless outside of that individuals range of influence.

Are you aware that server-side programs can set an arbitrary "Content-Type:" header? For example, the URL of the page with the form I'm using to write this comment is http://lwn.net/Articles/235132/comment, with no ".html" suffix, yet the value of the "Content-Type:" header is "text/html; charset=iso-8859-1". /etc/mime.types only applies to static files, and even then doesn't necessarily apply (see cortana's comment earlier in the thread).

> I vaguely remember that Napster unleashed somewhere near 1/2 billion mp3s on the planet before it was shut down... near on a decade ago.

Despite that, there are still many other audio codecs (AC3, the various RealAudio codecs, Windows Media Audio, DTS, AAC, etc.) and container formats (QuickTime, RealMedia, ASF, VOB, MPEG-4 part 14, Matroska, Nullsoft Streaming Video, etc.) in use. MP3 doesn't have as large a usage share as you claim it does.

> > iTunes and Winamp support video playback "out of the box". (emphasis added)

> I haven't checked lately but I'm pretty sure both require extra plugin downloads to play back Theora streams.

That's true, but it's not what I said. I said that they support video playback out of the box. (iTunes also requires a third-party plugin for Vorbis, whereas Winamp supports it by default.)