Weekly Edition
Return to the Announcements page
| |||||||||||||
|
| |||||||||||||
Two new initiatives from the FSF
The Free Software Foundation has announced
the creation of an "activist campaigns team" to try to spread the word on
software freedom. This group will be run by John Sullivan and Joshua Gay;
it will start by managing the BadVista.org and Defective By Design efforts.
There is also a new campaign called PlayOGG.org, intended to promote use of the Ogg Vorbis audio format. "OGG is your safest bet to be free from patent litigation when using compressed audio. This is especially true given the recent upswing in patent-based lawsuits. What is most frightening, and underscores the landmine metaphor often used to describe software patents, is the recent $1.5B preliminary judgment against Microsoft. Microsoft thought it had a paid-up nonexclusive license to practice the patents in MP3. This judgment demonstrates that there is no good way to protect yourself from these threats. The only viable solution right now is to switch to OGG, and work for the abolition of software patents." (Log in to post comments)
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 18:54 UTC (Wed) by atai (subscriber, #10977) [Link] Funny that Microsoft is cited as a victim of software patent here... Very ironic.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 20:02 UTC (Wed) by proski (subscriber, #104) [Link] Victim? Microsoft is the largest software maker in the world. They have enough influence in the field to make software patents disappear quickly. The reason Microsoft is not challenging the legitimacy of software patents is because they expect to win more than they lose.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 0:57 UTC (Thu) by gdt (subscriber, #6284) [Link] Bill Gates wrote an early letter of support for the FSF's no software patents campaign. Yet we still have software patents. At the time his company was the largest packaged software company in the world, as it remains today. (Obviously, Microsoft's position on patents has changed since these early days). You may also be overestimating the power of Microsoft compared with that of the combined pharmacutical companies: they don't want any change to the patent system; they don't yet want to take the risk that excluding software from patents will exclude some of their field too. It won't be until the existence of software patents threatens reform of the entire patent system that the pharmacutical companies will accept the removal of software from the patent system. And you'd better hope that individually-tailored biocomputing continues to remain of no diagnostic or treatment value, otherwise the opportunity for removing software patents will disappear immediately.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 19:05 UTC (Wed) by guinan (subscriber, #4644) [Link] For electronics enthusiasts, I recently noticed this SMD chip Ogg decoder,http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8300
sweet! Posted May 16, 2007 20:44 UTC (Wed) by moxfyre (guest, #13847) [Link] That's awesome, a $10 OGG decoder chip... basically add NAND flash and some buttons and you have a working device, since it already has a player program in firmware.
And unlike an MP3 player chip, you don't have to pay licensing fees for the chip! Probably explains why it's cheap :-)
sweet! Posted May 16, 2007 21:43 UTC (Wed) by dvrabel (subscriber, #9500) [Link] $8 for a chip like that is really quite expensive, I guess $2-3 would be a more competitive price. As a comparison one can buy an i.MX31 SoC for $18.
sweet! Posted May 16, 2007 23:24 UTC (Wed) by tetromino (subscriber, #33846) [Link] Electronics get more expensive when you buy in small quantities.
The freescale i.MX31 is $18 each only when you order them in quantities of over 1000 units. That price is quoted for manufacturers, not hobbyists. I am sure if you want to buy just one i.MX31, it will cost quite a bit more than $18.
sweet! Posted May 17, 2007 0:29 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link] > By contrast, you can buy a single SMD ogg decoder for $10 and start soldering.
...very, very carefully...
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 1:12 UTC (Thu) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989) [Link] Nice. I don't any sort of player. What models use this famous chip?
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 2:05 UTC (Thu) by AJWM (guest, #15888) [Link] That's a nice price. the VLSI price list quotes that chip (VS1000A) as $20 in quantity 1. (or 100@$10, 500@$4, etc). VLSI also have a demo board which is a complete player (includes flash, etc) for $100.
Thing is, VLSI also offers other chips (eg VS1002, VS1011) that (at a quick glance) seem to be equivalent except speak MP3 and not OV -- and they charge the same price with the Thomson license thrown in. Makes it tough to show a price advantage for Ogg.
I just bought a player for my wife, a Samsung T9 which - the specs on the web said - plays Ogg Vorbis (and MP3 and WMA). BUT -- if you buy one in North America you get the MTP (Music Transfer Protocol) firmware loaded on it, not the USB, so you can't just plug it in and copy files. If you load up the Samsung Music Studio software (on Windows, of course, and it insists on making sure you've got DirectX 9c installed which in turn insists on installing Windows Genuine Advantage -- ain't proprietary software fun?), that refuses to recognize .ogg files as a meaningful format; however, if you rename the .ogg file to .mp3 it loads and will play just fine. Of course I said screw that noise and reflashed the firmware so that the player now acts as any other USB driver as far as file loading, and lets you load .ogg files.
I hope Samsung got a good deal on their WMA license for that nonsense, I can't see any other reason for it. (Well, there's the whole DRM thing too, I guess.) But it shows the kind of hurdles that one has to go through -- and this was for a player that was advertised (in some places, not all) as playing Ogg. Which it does, once you figure out how to get Ogg files on the damn thing.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 5:27 UTC (Thu) by guinan (subscriber, #4644) [Link] I had a similar bad experience with a Samsung device, the tiny YP-F2J.
I wonder if Samsung and other lucky MS partners knew about the Zune?
Anyway, your post inspired me to look for a firmware upgrade for my Samsung unit. I have a few links that look promising, but if you wouldn't mind sharing where you got yours, post here or email me. Thanks!
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 9:10 UTC (Thu) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link] That's weird, I have a Samsung YP-F2 (maybe YP-F2XB if that means more, it's only tiny so the writing is... rather concise)
It worked out of the box as an MP3 / Vorbis player. It came with some MP3s and I've since loaded it with lots of Vorbis files at 60kbit/s or so which work fine. Maybe it's about where you buy it as the previous poster suggested
My only complaint about it is that it doesn't take mini-B USB connectors, having instead some arbitrary custom connector. I understand it's too small to have a built-in A connector, and that per USB specifications the custom connector lets the manufacturer relax some electrical tolerances that might save him a few cents here or there, but if I had the choice over I'd pay the extra for mini-B to be able to use the same charging cable as my GPS etc.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 16:43 UTC (Thu) by AJWM (guest, #15888) [Link] I googled for the model number, "ogg", and "linux" and found a few good pages. The actual firmware I downloaded from Samsung's site (http://www.samsung.com/download/ then click "Global Download Center" and accept the disclaimer that if you load the wrong firmware, it's your problem), then find a similar but slightly different model number (ie the last few letters differ) to get the different firmware (on the page with the actual file link, it should mention which countries it's intended for).
For the YP-T9 model, at least, firmware filenames with "_MTP.zip" is the US firmware that was already installed, and "_UMS.zip" was the file to load to get better USB and Ogg support. (Eg, I dl'd the file "20070322175558375_YP-T9_V1.67_UMS.zip"). Updating is just a matter of unzipping the file and copying the contents to the root or data directory on the device (either on Windows (what I did) or using mtp-sendfile on Linux, it comes with libmtp (http://libmtp.sourceforge.net)), the T9 reflashes its firmware on boot if it sees the files. NOTE, this may well be somewhat or completely different for your device. YMMV, etc.
Even if you don't find appropriate firmware, libmtp may do what you need. There's also mtpfs (http://www.adebenham.com/mtpfs/) which is a FUSE filesystem that supports MTP devices. I haven't tried it though.
Good luck.
YP-2F followup Posted May 17, 2007 18:39 UTC (Thu) by guinan (subscriber, #4644) [Link] @tialaramex: mine says YP-F2JXB/XAA on the back, my wife got it as a gift for me at Target here in Mass. With the default firmware, Windows wanted me to upgrade to Media Player 10, etc., the whole "Janus" end-to-end control nightmare.http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5183692.html Linux tried to treat it as a mass storage device, but it didn't respond, and dropped off the USB bus after a few seconds. @AJWM: I ended up going through the samsung.com.au site, and found a V1.501 firmware that makes the thing into a mass-storage device. Works great now! I copied some .ogg files to it, they play back just fine. Thanks anyway for the procedural tips - I used the Windows tool from the .zip file to update it this time, but I may try your method if I upgrade again.
Link where I found the .au idea (btw I share the author's disgust regarding the Janus DRM thing):
Vorbis hardware Posted May 17, 2007 17:12 UTC (Thu) by andrel (subscriber, #5166) [Link] The Vorbis Hardware section of the Xiph wiki tries to track the state of hardware Ogg Vorbis playback. It'd be great if you could post there with details of how you fixed your player.
Vorbis hardware Posted May 17, 2007 20:36 UTC (Thu) by AJWM (guest, #15888) [Link] Yes, that wiki helped get me started on the fix -- and also influenced my choice of player in the first place. I'll add some details there, thanks for the reminder.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 19:14 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] But switching to ogg (really vorbis, one presumes) won't necessarily helpmuch. I mean, I like ogg vorbis and all my music is in vorbis format, but it's not really more than a palliative measure. It's switching from something which has known litigious sods hitting you up for using it to something which doesn't yet but which *will* as soon as a significant number of people start using it.
(It's not as if it's going to be free from patents. Nothing is. It's
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 19:22 UTC (Wed) by IkeTo (subscriber, #2122) [Link] > It's switching from something which has known litigious sods hitting you up> for using it to something which doesn't yet but which *will* as soon as a > significant number of people start using it.
I think OGG is special: it actively tries to look for patents during implementation, and avoid all those. If this doesn't make OGG better in terms of safety from patent lawsuit, I think you shouldn't use Linux (or most other software) at all, since few of them has done such a boring exercise.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 23:13 UTC (Wed) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] OGG isn't special. In fact, it doesn't exist. Ogg does. And it is.
It's unfortunate that these campaigners couldn't take the time to learn enough about their subject to know the basic fact that it is not an acronym.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 23:19 UTC (Wed) by szoth (subscriber, #14825) [Link] It is an embarrassing error, but certainly not an serious one.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 0:32 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link] Whilst we're being pedantic, let's remember that Ogg is the container format only, and Vorbis the compressed audio stream specification.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 16:47 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] Much like AVI or Matroska (sp?), in fact.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 10:00 UTC (Thu) by DonDiego (subscriber, #24141) [Link] You mean Vorbis, not Ogg.
Anyway, the MP3 patent holders disagree about Vorbis not infringing any (of their) patents, so good luck once there is money to be made there...
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 22:23 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] Actually I think he meant Xiph. As far as I know neither Ogg nor Vorbis'simplementations look for patents at all, but Xiph (Monty) did when implementing them ;)
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 22:18 UTC (Wed) by zooko (subscriber, #2589) [Link] That's an interesting point. Also possibly relevant is that the mp3 patents will start expiring any day now [1, 2], but if anyone out there gets a patent on vorbis, that patent could last for a couple of decades more from now.
That said, however, I don't expect any patents to turn up on the vorbis codec itself.
Regards,
Zooko
[1] http://mp3licensing.com/patents/index.html
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 18, 2007 1:20 UTC (Fri) by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698) [Link] They'll *start* expiring soon, yes, but it will still be quite a while before the last of them expires.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 16, 2007 23:45 UTC (Wed) by apwiggins (guest, #14171) [Link] Agree wholeheartedly with the FSF campaign. I would love to see the "Ogg Vorbis" rebranded to "OV" or "OV3" to make the format name more palatable. Every time that I use the Ogg or Vorbis to any non-technical, non-free software person, they immediately think "odd -- not for me" and immediately miss the freedom argument. How about it? PlayOV.org or PlayOV3.org ?-APW
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 0:20 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] Well, in the UK, whenever I've mentioned it in front of more than oneperson *someone* has mentioned Terry Pratchett :) and while Ogg isn't a Pratchett reference, Vorbis (the name of the actual encoding) *is*. And Pratchett has some serious popularity over here.
(What pterry himself thinks of all this I don't know.)
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 1:03 UTC (Thu) by gdt (subscriber, #6284) [Link] pterry can't say anything if he's fine with the use of the name. That would open the floodgates. We'll just have to take the lack of a cease-and-desist letter as an indication.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 6:52 UTC (Thu) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link] and while Ogg isn't a Pratchett reference,Isn't it? I always assumed it was in honor of the Diskworld character, the witch Nanny Ogg. I hope this isn't another case of "Kermit" (the authors of the classic KERMIT file transfer protocol insisted for years the name had nothing to do with the Muppets, but eventually admitted it).
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 9:25 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link] According to http://xiph.org/xiphname, an ogg is a tactical move in Netrek, and that's the origin. (Vorbis, however, IS a pTerry reference - probably directly as a result of everyone asking about Gytha.)
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 17, 2007 0:57 UTC (Thu) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link] And why would we use a "3" on the end, since there's no Layer 3 involved in the Vorbis or Ogg specifications? Imitating the name of a competitor (especially when that name comes from a technical detail of the competitor's specific format) seems like a rather odd way to make potential users feel at home.
The .ogg filetype should be just fine as is, if you ask me, since it's a container format. If your application is looking at an .ogg file, it should be able to parse the container and find out if there's any streams it can use, much like a .mov file for QuickTime. If there's a Vorbis stream in there, it can play audio. If there's a Theora stream, it can play video. Et cetera. If there's no streams it can use, it can say so it whatever way it feels appropriate. There's no need to create additional filetypes for each stream type that might be embedded in the Ogg container format.
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 17, 2007 19:45 UTC (Thu) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] Two points, I agree with the start of this sub-thread that the "ogg" sufixis probably one of the simplest dumb things holding back wider adoption of Ogg/Vorbis. Most non-geeks I have ever tried to convince to use ogg have a first reaction of "ogg = ugh - you're joking, mp3 sounds way cooler" (not the codec, the name itself). If the the most braindead simple "marketting" move was made to officially change the "*.ogg" suffix for Ogg/Vorbis to "mpx" (ie; mp3 eXtended, implying next-gen), and that "mpx" was actively promoted as THE replacement for mp3, then that ultra-simple move would do more for naive cultural acceptance than anything I can think of.
Second point is that reusing .ogg as the suffix for both audio and video
So, again IMVHO, if the general usage of Ogg/Vorbis was changed from "ogg"
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 18, 2007 7:44 UTC (Fri) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link] > "mpx" (ie; mp3 eXtended, implying next-gen) Ogg and Vorbis are unrelated to MPEG, so that name would be misleading.
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 18, 2007 9:50 UTC (Fri) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] From a purely technical point of view that is correct. I know this and sowould most people reading this forum. From a naive public perception point of view, Ogg is totally related to mp3, it's in the same usage space competting with mp3 for market share. *IF* Ogg/Vorbis should become the natural replacement for mp3 then one obvious (to me) open source marketing ploy would be to (re)name the successor of mp3 from ogg to mpx to specifically indicate it's meant to be THE mp3 replacement codec. The majority of people that this change would appeal to do not care if it's an open source patent-free codec, that's geeky stuff. All that matters is that it is actually better (and, whew!, it is) and is PERCEIVED to be the natural upgrade/replacement... which, after 5 years, Ogg/Vorbis is not. Ogg/Vorbis usage would run at about 1% of mp3 usage and even AAC is gaining momentum faster than Ogg/Vorbis. We, I guess, need to do something about this or Ogg/Vorbis (and Theora) will slide into total obscurity relative to other codecs and I think this ultra simple change in tactic could make a significant difference. I've yet to hear anyone else make any suggestions as to how to address the stagnant market share RATIO of Ogg/Vorbis (it's usage is increasing but mp3/aac usage is increasing even faster).
And as noted, a move like this would also solve the confusion about
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 19, 2007 0:07 UTC (Sat) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link] > Ogg/Vorbis usage would run at about 1% of mp3 usage and even AAC is gaining momentum faster than Ogg/Vorbis. Says who? > And as noted, a move like this would also solve the confusion about delivering two different types of media using a single mime.type. Firstly, there are many more than two types of media that can be contained in an Ogg stream. The Wikipedia article lists 9 different codecs. Secondly, there need not be a one-to-one correspondence between filename extensions and MIME types. > If anyone doubts this is an issue then just try delivering Ogg/Theora to an audio-only player and hear (not) the result. Then don't use an audio-only player. Problem solved.
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 19, 2007 5:39 UTC (Sat) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] > Says who?
IMVHO, since iTunes started, the adoption ratio of AAC would outstrip
> Firstly, there are many more than two types of
I have no issue with multimedia Ogg containers delivering multi-media
> Secondly, there need not be a one-to-one correspondence
a) please provide an example of how to configure apache to deliver more
b) if a) is possible then what should that extra mime.type be for
> Then don't use an audio-only player.
For whom ? Try telling that to Amarok users, let alone Winamp and iTunes
I would suggest that Ogg/Vorbis usage amongst elite geeks is maybe 50%,
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 1:11 UTC (Sun) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] > a) please provide an example of how to configure apache to deliver more> than one mime.type from a single filetype extension of only ".ogg" ?
Use mod_mime_magic; or the module that allows you to store the content-type header in a user extended attribute attached to the file in question; or the module that allows you to specify http headers (including content-type) in a text file with the same base filename as the file to be served.
audio/ogg and video/ogg seem reasonable to use for this purpose. But they are not the official registered media types and so can't be relied on to work in the real world. :(
To be honest, the users that you are talking about are already a lost cause. They will only be able to play content in formats that are playable by the computer as shipped by the vendor (i.e., bundle the ogg demuxers and vorbis/theora codec directshow components with Windows... why do no vendors do this even though oggds is free as in beer and as in software?) or that can be downloaded automatically by Windows Media Player (I guess MICROS~1 has no interest in making it easy for anyone to do anythign with media files that they don't control the format of).
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 6:13 UTC (Sun) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] > Use mod_mime_magic
That is feasible but you've just outlined yet another reason why anything
> audio/ogg and video/ogg...
video/ogg is not needed, the current official application/ogg mime.type is
> To be honest, the users that you are
Therein is the great Ogg catch-22 dilema, indeed for the whole opensource
> They will only be able to play content
Exactly. Until such time that Ogg "goes mainstream".
> I guess MICROS~1 has no interest in making
Exactly. There is nothing for M$ lawyers to latch onto to do
Now here is a good example of my mpx proposal and how it fits in... try
I can easily see retail outlet advertisements excitedly promoting "mpx
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 14:07 UTC (Sun) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] Aha, another poster linked to http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/Vorbis_I_spec.html#id2512176:However, if a file is a Vorbis I audio file (which implies a degenerate Ogg stream including only unmultiplexed Vorbis audio), the mime type audio/x-vorbis is also allowed.So you can implement your idea today if you want! :) AddType audio/x-vorbis .mpx # or append audio/x-vorbis mpx to /etc/mime.types
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 21, 2007 5:22 UTC (Mon) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] > Aha, another poster linked to...> the mime type audio/x-vorbis is also allowed.
Good find. It's not really meaningful unless it's officially registered
> So you can implement your idea today if you want! :)
Yes, I'm eating my own dog food and have just mass renamed all my
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 5:29 UTC (Sun) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link] > For whom ? Try telling that to Amarok users, let alone Winamp and iTunes users. All three of those support video playback. > a) please provide an example of how to configure apache to deliver more than one mime.type from a single filetype extension of only ".ogg" ? One way: AddHandler cgi-script ogg Another way: mod_rewrite > b) if a) is possible then what should that extra mime.type be for Ogg/vorbis ? > I would suggest that Ogg/Vorbis usage amongst elite geeks is maybe 50%, perhaps. What basis do you have for that estimate? > They are the majority of computer users that have never heard of "ogg" The majority of computer users had never heard of MP3 (or QuickTime, or RealMedia, or Nullsoft Video, or AVI, etc.) at first, either. > (ogg = ugh, phonetically it's just plain anti-slick) That's just your opinion.
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 7:30 UTC (Sun) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] > All three of those support video playback.
Not "out of the box" without plugins. Cool, I didn't know Amorok now plays
> audio/x-vorbis
Reasonable. But no web server or web browser comes setup to recognize that
> What basis do you have for that estimate?
Personal observation. Asking the linux users I know over the years gets a
> The majority of computer users had never heard of MP3
Not in my world. I have never come across any computer user, that has any
> (ogg = ugh) That's just your opinion.
Yes, from trying to convert countless mp3 windows users to ogg and asking
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 18:44 UTC (Sun) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link] > deliver the mime.type from an .ogg suffix It shouldn't matter what the suffix of a URL is; any URL can have any MIME type (not "mime.type"). > > The majority of computer users had never heard of MP3 (emphasis added) > I have never come across any computer user, that has any interest in music, that has not at least heard of "mp3" and knows that it's got something to do with "playing music". Maybe now they do, but they didn't in 1994. That was my point: all codecs/container formats/etc. were new once, and they didn't gain usage share by being named similar to older ones.
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 20, 2007 19:14 UTC (Sun) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link] One more thing: > Not "out of the box" without plugins. iTunes and Winamp support video playback "out of the box". Amarok currently requires the NMM or Phonon engine to be able to play video (presumably Phonon will be the default or only engine in KDE 4).
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 21, 2007 5:58 UTC (Mon) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] > It shouldn't matter what the suffix of a URL is;
Technically true, real-world incorrect. Unless it's registered with the
> any URL can have any MIME type (not "mime.type").
It's actually "Internet media type".
> but they didn't in 1994... and they didn't gain
In 1994 there was no prior mass saturation of the digital audio space with
> iTunes and Winamp support video playback "out of the box".
I haven't checked lately but I'm pretty sure both require extra plugin
> Amarok currently requires the NMM or
Wow, thanks, that is good to hear. I was under the impression that Amarok
Simply change the Ogg/Vorbis ogg suffix to mpx Posted May 22, 2007 8:15 UTC (Tue) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link] > > It shouldn't matter what the suffix of a URL is; > Technically true, real-world incorrect. Unless it's registered with the IANA, and comes default in /etc/mime.types and most browsers and applications respect whatever the official audio/vorbis suffix is, then any individual diddling with an arbituary suffix is as good as useless outside of that individuals range of influence. Are you aware that server-side programs can set an arbitrary "Content-Type:" header? For example, the URL of the page with the form I'm using to write this comment is http://lwn.net/Articles/235132/comment, with no ".html" suffix, yet the value of the "Content-Type:" header is "text/html; charset=iso-8859-1". /etc/mime.types only applies to static files, and even then doesn't necessarily apply (see cortana's comment earlier in the thread). > I vaguely remember that Napster unleashed somewhere near 1/2 billion mp3s on the planet before it was shut down... near on a decade ago. Despite that, there are still many other audio codecs (AC3, the various RealAudio codecs, Windows Media Audio, DTS, AAC, etc.) and container formats (QuickTime, RealMedia, ASF, VOB, MPEG-4 part 14, Matroska, Nullsoft Streaming Video, etc.) in use. MP3 doesn't have as large a usage share as you claim it does. > > iTunes and Winamp support video playback "out of the box". (emphasis added) > I haven't checked lately but I'm pretty sure both require extra plugin downloads to play back Theora streams. That's true, but it's not what I said. I said that they support video playback out of the box. (iTunes also requires a third-party plugin for Vorbis, whereas Winamp supports it by default.)
codecs vs. container formats Posted May 17, 2007 10:08 UTC (Thu) by DonDiego (subscriber, #24141) [Link] Ogg (note the spelling) is just a container format, Vorbis is the audio codec. Ogg can contain other codecs apart from Vorbis and Vorbis can be delivered in other containers than Ogg.
So speaking of "playing Ogg" is always wrong. What you play is Vorbis or Ogg Vorbis if you insist on mentioning the container explicitly. It's sad to see these crucial technical differences papered over by campaigners...
codecs vs. container formats Posted May 17, 2007 16:17 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] For the FSF's purposes, it's not wrong, because for video, "play ogg" means Ogg Theora, which they also want to encourage.
codecs vs. container formats Posted May 19, 2007 15:26 UTC (Sat) by Los__D (subscriber, #15263) [Link] But Ogg can contain ANY codec, right?
codecs vs. container formats Posted May 21, 2007 10:26 UTC (Mon) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] AFAIK it can only contain codecs that have profiles described in the Ogg spec.
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 19, 2007 21:30 UTC (Sat) by gravious (guest, #7662) [Link] How about vorbis becomes "Open Audio", theora becomes "Open Video" and the .ogg container becomes .om for "Open Multimedia".
You know sometimes I wonder why this kind of 'branding' is necessary. Who are we trying to sell this stuff to. If someone is too dumb/ignorant to understand that .ogg contains various types of media or thinks Vorbis is a stupid name or even ogg is stupid or confusing then I feel like saying, 'screw em'. I know, not very nice of me, is it? But, you know, we don't always have to spoon-feed people, and once they get bitten enough times by DRM or proprietary software they'll slowly turn. By way of analogy, fingers in the fire - ow! versus "careful now, that'll hurt". If you are having difficulty explaining .ogg and freedom to someone and they're making fun of it, not getting it and so on, maybe it's better to let the get a little bit burnt, they might listen harder next time. Instead of this constant dumbing-down.
Also - I may as well post this here. Speaking of an "Open Multimedia" container, JavaFX, Flash and Silverlight have been getting a lot of press lately. It seems that one of the hurdles for the open formats of HTML/SVG/Javascript (that rich internet application (RIA) tech) to take on these three varying degrees of free technologies is the lack of a bundling mechanism. Why not extend .om to contain RIA stuff? Just a thought. This would address a number of problems in one go, I think. Also as aq from LugRadio mentions on his personal site we also need someone to create an IDE for generating .om content, this would be a drag 'n drop GUI tool to allow a developer/designer to create RIA stuff which produces warm fuzzy open standards content, your imagination is the limit really. We, as a community are going to be caught on the hop if we don't figure out how to enable a compelling transition from bog-standard HTML to RIA. (But there I go myself, who am _I_ trying to sell this to? To be honest, I don't know, but I really really really want to keep the internet Open and Free. Maybe, more code-code and less jaw-jaw, huh?)
Thoughts? Comments?
Two new initiatives from the FSF Posted May 20, 2007 7:53 UTC (Sun) by markc (guest, #4419) [Link] > How about vorbis becomes "Open Audio",> theora becomes "Open Video" and the .ogg > container becomes .om for "Open Multimedia".
Or just change Ogg/Vorbis related ogg content to use mpx with a registered
> JavaFX, Flash and Silverlight
Yes, a lot of big companies are spending big money on dumbing down the
> more code-code and less jaw-jaw
Not much use without appealing to the dumb/ignorant masses, BTW.
One of the more interesting potential delivery mechanisms for Ogg content
|
|
||||||||||||