Armaggedon [LWN.net]

Armaggedon

Posted May 14, 2007 16:25 UTC (Mon) by phiggins (subscriber, #5605)
In reply to: Armaggedon by smitty_one_each
Parent article: Microsoft takes on the free world (CNN)

I'm amazed that people have already forgotten the RSA patent problems. RSA is a popular cryptographic algorithm whose patent expired in 2000. Prior to that, it was used in SSL, PGP, IPSec, and various other popular pieces of networked software which were properly licensed by proprietary software vendors, but Free Software users couldn't use them in the USA. There is simply no way to code around RSA support. Many free programs also supported El Gamal and other algorithms, but not having RSA support caused major compatibility problems because most proprietary software didn't support the non-patented algorithms.

MS or any other company could completely kill a project like Samba which needs to interoperate with their software by requiring the protocol to use a patented algorithm (like SSL with RSA). Patents are a serious problem for software in general. I just wonder if Microsoft could be slapped for monopolistic behavior by using their patents in such a way. I just don't know how these areas of law interact.

Network protocols are the one area I've seen patents wreak havoc, but I'm pretty sure that they could present serious problems for desktop software, too. What if all new MS Office file formats used encryption or compression that was patented (assuming decryption and decompression are also patented)?

(Log in to post comments)

Armaggedon

Posted May 14, 2007 17:12 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

I just wonder if Microsoft could be slapped for monopolistic behavior by using their patents in such a way. I just don't know how these areas of law interact.

I would think that Microsoft would just offer "reasonable" patent licensing terms. Even if these conditions would kill free software, Microsoft could then argue that they are not being monopolistic because all competitors can license their patents. (Or, to be precise, that they are not using their existing monopoly as an unfair advantage.)

Worst possible scenario. Free software in the US effectively disappears. Checkmate.

Armaggedon in a puff of smoke!

Posted May 14, 2007 23:09 UTC (Mon) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]

"" Worst possible scenario. Free software in the US effectively disappears. Checkmate. ""

hmmm.. no! *Comercial* Free software in the US will be only for the big boys that pay to M$. About all repositorys, say perhaps 90% of all OSS, from all the independent developers will be lodge outside of US... Many developers will go on even if unemployed... M$ thinks they can cut substancial air out of OSS ( how incredible stupid they are!) but the only thing they get is richer out of the extortion, which after all, money and faul play is a banality expected from them anyway.

**For the end user life will go on as usual... its not even check**

Armaggedon scenarios, IANAL

Posted May 14, 2007 23:37 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

It is not so easy, I fear. Most people are not rebels, nor can you expect them to be.

Patents would make liable not only the distributor, but also the end user. In effect, it would be as illegal to run any libre software without paying Microsoft as it is now to run a bootleg copy of Windows. Mix in a little BSA-like (or RIAA-like, if you want) techniques, to instill the fear of God in businesses and end-users as needed, and voilà! Instant monopoly.

It's crazy, I know, but it would be the net result of recent moves by Microsoft. Their executives must be salivating in their fluorescent-lit offices right now. Probably not even them can imagine the situation going so far; a little FUD is all that is needed to keep customers for a few more years. The moment they start the first lawsuit is where IBM, Red Hat et al retaliate.

Posted May 15, 2007 14:47 UTC (Tue) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]

"" Patents would make liable not only the distributor, but also the end user. In effect, it would be as illegal to run any libre software without paying Microsoft as it is now to run a bootleg copy of Windows. ""

And how many "user shops" around the world go with illegal windows ? The large majority i'm affraid, specially among the smallest ones in developing countrys. And that is a fellony everywhere. Well most of these patents are only valid in the US... so... no need to be a rebel here.

M$ is after the big money from the big shops and operators, essentially *only* in US.

Those are only the beginning

Posted May 15, 2007 14:57 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

True, but think about our poor colleagues in the US. Why do they have to pay a Microsoft tax when the brave open world has worked out its own operating system from the bottom up?

Besides, after the US take it for granted that software patents are good, and "violating" them is bad, then you can bet it will take little time to have them reenacted here in Europe. We should help strike evil things down at the roots.

Those are only the beginning

Posted May 17, 2007 14:44 UTC (Thu) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]

I've supported "no" softwware patents in Europe for almost a decade.

But another thought is that if OSS is so proficient, an organization to build a vast and good portfolio of patents, prior-art, trivialitys... isnt either a bad idea.

OSS can defeat 'them' at their own game.

Armaggedon

Posted May 15, 2007 19:38 UTC (Tue) by dark (subscriber, #8483) [Link]

Fortunately, I think that era is now ending. The tug-of-war between ODF and Microsoft's XML format will be the last great decision between patented and unpatented protocols, and in the future a protocol that excludes free software will simply not be able to dominate the marketplace.

I remember when RSA and - particularly - RC5 were inserted into security protocols almost without thought, often as the only must-support option. These days, any such move would be met with an immediate outcry, and a real justification would have to be given for excluding free software implementations. Linux is pervasive enough that every standards body will have at least one user :)