Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon [LWN.net]

Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon

Posted Apr 15, 2007 17:44 UTC (Sun) by jbailey (subscriber, #16890)
In reply to: Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon by mikov
Parent article: Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon

It's not obvious to me. Can you clarify?

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Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon

Posted Apr 15, 2007 20:20 UTC (Sun) by mikov (subscriber, #33179) [Link]

Here is my theory in brief: Multiple Linux distributions make it harder for ISVs to support linux, make it harder for end users to adopt Linux on the desktop, and make it harder for sysadmins to support Linux.

Some more details:

Administering RedHat is different from administering Debian which is different (although not that much) from administering Ubunty, etc. They all come with slightly different applications, slightly different behavior, different versions, different defaults, configurations in different places, etc.

Then comes the MAJOR issue of applications not included in the distribution (or newer versions of said apps). They usually come with installation instructions and binaries for a couple of distros, but usually not the one you are using :-) A "regular" person (e.g. my wife) would not be able to deal with it. It would be much much easier for a vendor to have to worry only about one distro and provide and test just one set of binaries and documentation.

To illustrate the last point, how is a regular person supposed to install OpenOffice 2.2 on Ubuntu ?

Of course, this problem applies both to desktops and servers.

Yes, a good engineer or a sysadmin will be able to handle any distrubution, eventually, with some effort, but most people are not good engineers or sysadmins. And even the good engineers and sysadmins have better things to do.

People who are not as enthusiastic about technology as the readers of LWN prefer to invest in learning something more universal. Once you know how to use WindowsXP, you will be OK on any Windows computer. This is not the case with Linux and Linux adoption suffers because of it.

Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon

Posted Apr 16, 2007 16:34 UTC (Mon) by marduk (subscriber, #3831) [Link]

Once you know how to use WindowsXP, you will be OK on any Windows computer.

True, but many Windows users don't know how to use Windows. They know how to use Hotmail or iTunes or whatever, but given the task of doing something outside their level of comfort and they're just as confused as a newbie Linux user. For example, I recently talked with a person who claims she's been using (Windows) computers since 1998, but she didn't know how to defrag her hard drive.

Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon

Posted Apr 18, 2007 21:01 UTC (Wed) by pbardet (guest, #22762) [Link]

I don't think defragmenting a hard drive qualifies as "using a computer".
It's more like a maintenance task that no one should care about.

Linux Diversity

Posted Apr 19, 2007 12:29 UTC (Thu) by ldo (subscriber, #40946) [Link]

Here is my theory in brief: Multiple Linux distributions make it harder for ISVs to support linux, make it harder for end users to adopt Linux on the desktop, and make it harder for sysadmins to support Linux.

Which makes about as much sense as saying that multiple models of cars in the market make it harder for makers of car accessories to support cars, make it harder for drivers to drive cars, and make it harder for mechanics to support cars.

Administering RedHat is different from administering Debian which is different (although not that much) from administering Ubunty, etc. They all come with slightly different applications, slightly different behavior, different versions, different defaults, configurations in different places, etc.

So what? Every organization worth its salt has an established policy about what sorts of platforms it will or will not support. Once that choice is made, you either abide by it, or you're on your own.

Then comes the MAJOR issue of applications not included in the distribution (or newer versions of said apps).

That problem is best left to the distro maintainers, unless you're really wanting to live on the bleeding edge.

To illustrate the last point, how is a regular person supposed to install OpenOffice 2.2 on Ubuntu ?

Surely that's a simple matter of using apt-get or whatever the graphical equivalent is, in the appropriate version of Ubuntu? Like I said, if you're not knowledgeable enough to live on the bleeding edge, just leave the problem to the distro maintainers.

Once you know how to use WindowsXP, you will be OK on any Windows computer.

Until Microsoft abandons XP and forces you to move to Visaster...

Linux Diversity

Posted Apr 19, 2007 16:15 UTC (Thu) by mikov (subscriber, #33179) [Link]

Which makes about as much sense as saying that multiple models of cars in the market make it harder for makers of car accessories to support cars, make it harder for drivers to drive cars, and make it harder for mechanics to support cars.

Comparing cars and software is hardly a good comparison. Nevertheless the answer actually is "yes" - multiple makes of cars make it significantly harder to maintain cars. Surely that must be obvious. Don't try to stretch this comparison too thin though.

Surely that's a simple matter of using apt-get or whatever the graphical equivalent is, in the appropriate version of Ubuntu? Like I said, if you're not knowledgeable enough to live on the bleeding edge, just leave the problem to the distro maintainers.

You are not really addressing my points at all. I will try to explain. You should NOT have to be knowledgeable in order to use newer version of applications.

Think about it for a second before letting enthusiasm take over :-) In Windows it is trivial for anybody to install OpenOffice 2.2 (or whatever) because there is an installation package for Windows on the web site.

This is NOT the case for the Linux version because OpenOffice would have to customize, package and test dozens of different packages for every distro out there.

Suggesting that users upgrade their OS in order to use a newer version of OpenOffice is absurd. If we can't agree on that, I don't think there can be a meaningful discussion on the subject.

Linux Diversity

Posted Apr 20, 2007 6:52 UTC (Fri) by ldo (subscriber, #40946) [Link]

Comparing cars and software is hardly a good comparison. Nevertheless the answer actually is "yes" - multiple makes of cars make it significantly harder to maintain cars. Surely that must be obvious.

It sounds like you think it's a Bad Thing. It's not--it's just the way the market works. The same economic factors that allow such a wide diversity of products in the car market, going back over a century right to its beginnings, also promote similar diversity in the open-source market. That's not going to change, whether you like it or not.

In Windows it is trivial for anybody to install OpenOffice 2.2 (or whatever) because there is an installation package for Windows on the web site.

Really? How many of your typical Dimdows users are able to figure out how to download and install the package?

Linux Diversity

Posted Apr 24, 2007 14:02 UTC (Tue) by superstoned (subscriber, #33164) [Link]

Suggesting that users upgrade their OS in order to use a newer version of OpenOffice is absurd. If we can't agree on that, I don't think there can be a meaningful discussion on the subject.

Sure users would have to upgrade their OS to have newer software... That's the whole idea of a linux distribution. the FOSS world does releases mostly every 6 to 12 months with the latest and greatest software, all specifically tested & compiled for that specific version. so YES, you upgrade your OS to have newer software. If you want it earlier, download & install & maintain it yourself, like you have to do on windows. And that is indeed even more work than it would be on windows - but it's a broken way of managing software for endusers anyway. Nobody, expect maybe professional system administrators and developers, should have to handle software management themselves (like windows users have to do). In FOSS, the distribution takes care of that.

Ubuntu: Introducing the Gutsy Gibbon

Posted Apr 19, 2007 22:16 UTC (Thu) by BackSeat (subscriber, #1886) [Link]

Then comes the MAJOR issue of applications not included in the distribution

Are you saying that Linux is at a disadvantage because a distribution typically ships a huge number of applications but possibly not the one, or the exact version of one, that a user requires? As opposed to Another Operating System that ships, effectively, no applications and thus does not suffer from this problem?